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Jim McElwain vs Will Muschamp through 30 games

Discussion in 'Gator Football' started by Escambia94, Sep 30, 2017.

  1. Escambia94

    Escambia94 Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE) Moderator

    I am not saying Mac was a bad hire in 2015 or that Champ was a bad hire in 2011, but it just seems that this is what Florida Gator football is now and we cannot escape this funk. Here is a comparison of the two coaches through their first 30 games:
    • Muschamp 21-9
      • W-L vs top 25: 4-7
      • Record vs rivals: 5-5
      • Avg recruiting ranking: #6
      • Avg SOS: #16
      • Started 3rd year 2-1 (finished 4-8)
      • Ranking at 30th game: #20
    • McElwain 21-9
      • W-L vs Top 25: 4-8
      • Record vs rivals: 5-4
      • Avg recruiting ranking: #13
      • Avg SOS: #13
      • Started 3rd year 2-1
      • Ranking at 30th game: #21
    These statistics are eerily similar, so Mac needs to coach a good game against Vanderbilt in order to avoid the same fate as his predecessor. It is too painful to rehash what happened in from games 31 through 38--consecutive losses and a losing season. In short, at this point in 2013 the Gators were at the beginning of a rapid fall, primarily due to injury, but also due to bad coaching and locker room division. There are signs that the locker room is better in 2017, but we can debate the quality of coaching as well as impacts not from suspensions instead of injuries.

    Watch for the signs against Vanderbilt. We have LSU and aTm at home, UGA at a neutral site, then away games at Missouri and SC before our next "easy" game.
     
  2. miltongator

    miltongator Gator Fan

    Almost a mirror image. I hope it doesn't reflect that the rest of the way.
     
  3. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Far as what we have seen, are seeing and wiil see for the foreseeable future, I'm afraid "eerily similar" constitutes both "cause" AND "effect".
    Frankly, though, I am so sick of trying to understand and explain what we've been watching essentially the same sad results manifest on the field.
    I am just about done with even trying. Feel like we have about the same hope of seeing real change if we all "held our breats until we turn purple". Hell with ALL of it. Put me down in the category, "Either get an offense, NOW, or the inevitable 'bottom falls out' once more--and I toll the bummer-bell 'til we finally go out and get ANOTHER "promising young Coach".
    I don't know if we'll get it right NEXT time (like E- says, each of the last LOOKED like a potential winner)--but we at least are quicker able to recognize when the wheels are starting to come off...No matter where YOU are on the "let's see what happens"/"it's time to move on NOW" continuum, if we lose to Vandy today, I truly believe that no matter WHAT the public position of the AD and his puppet masters, it WILL be time to crank up the "Next!"-machine.
     
  4. Leakfan12

    Leakfan12 VIP Member

    Vandy lost to Bama 59-0 (AT HOME), I thinking they can do something against Vandy (I'm hoping). Also with the schedule it's a relatively easy schedule with LSU who lost to Miss St, TAMU, and road games against Mizzou and Musdud's guys. UGA will be tough. Again they need to pick a QB and stick with him for the rest of the season.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    "Agree", all around--but with a "BUT...":
    This team, the whole program is riddled with cracks. This is just the latest week where we find ourselves on the edge of crumbling: All it'll take is a loss here I believe to shatter us--never mind whatever hollow drivel our Coach spews in the aftermath of such a loss. A win, on the other hand, even a breakout offensive performance, will NOT change the fact that the NEXT game will find us in the exact same position. Pretty grim outlook.
     
  6. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Well, virtually everything each of us addressed here earlier was more or less addressed--not in any direct or logical way, to a great extent "inadvertently", but the questions either answered or rendered moot for now.
    Thing about the original points made by E- in posting this thread, more I consider it post-Vandy, more interesting and BAFFLING I find it all:
    Both Coaches have had similar general results, one (Muschaml) brought in as a defensive "mastermind" who is emotionally hot and publically, demonstrably angry and emotional on the sidelines, the other (McElwain) an Offensive guru, cool, calm, publicly easy-going and supportive of his players-- and when comes right down to it, both stats and actual results are WAY similar.
    Not sure what to make of all that--except to reiterate MY view that by the same standards that got Muschamp terminated, same fate OUGHT to be soon awaiting Coach Mac.
     
  7. Escambia94

    Escambia94 Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE) Moderator

    Well. This victory over Vanderbilt was not a very clear sign that Mac's destiny will be different from Champ's, but I think it is slightly trending in the positive direction.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Leakfan12

    Leakfan12 VIP Member

    Well LSU doesn't look good because they lost to Troy AT HOME, T A&M usually falls apart in the second half of the season (probably sooner because they got Bama next week). I think there's a good chance that the Gators will be 5-1 by the time they face off against UGA.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Escambia94

    Escambia94 Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE) Moderator

    Exactly. Oddly enough, we have a chance to be optimistic. LSU is hurting, and it is Florida's job to finish them off and send them completely outside the top 25 rankings. aTm is limping along, but still dangerous. Both are winnable games at home. The Gators have a week off before what I consider to be our Super Bowl against Georgia. I am not saying Florida can challenge Alabama, but I am saying that compared to Muschamp at this point, Mac has the Gators trending in a slightly more positive direction.

    In a perfect world, here are the things the Gators need in order to beat Alabama next year:
    1. Hire an additional offensive coach. Make him QB coach or passing game coordinator.
    2. Hire an additional defensive coach. Make him an assistant to Randy Shannon. Let that guy manage discipline on the field.
    3. Recruit good replacements for Antonio Callaway and Jordan Scarlett (and anyone else), assuming they are officially expelled from the team by the end of the year regardless of the timing of court hearings.
    Unlike other fans, I am not convinced that firing Nussmeier, Shannon, or anyone else is the solution. I think recruiting is getting better in terms of balancing talent in offense, defense, and special teams.

    In summary: Jim McElwain still has the ability to avoid the fate of Will Muschamp, and he is showing a positive trend towards doing so. I will not get excited until he does something to improve offensive play calling, defensive discipline, and balance in talent.
     
  10. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    OK--we'd TAKE that, for SURE...BUT:
    Our play, along with the results, against UGA will be the one that tells us, tells the college football WORLD where we are at. With everything, adding now the latest injuries, we might be fortunate to split the next two--even at home...I just have no idea what to expect game to game now.
    No matter what, barring a complete collapse BEFORE The C-Party, THAT'LL be the one that makes the diff, shows where we're really at and where we're headed.
    So much has happened, so much lost and so little proven or gained that even the wins tell us little going forward ("Pyric Victories", as I've said: Yeah, one of those college-found, "Classic Greek" references--referring to a battle "win" that leaves the victors so weak afterwards that, for the moment at least, they've little chance of "winning" another battle against ANYONE).
    No one but the "near-blind faithful" among our fans (who see only our w/l record and a "Top 25" ranking, if we still have one), along with media and bookmakers (who in both cases have vested interest in seeing that a maximum number of potential viewers and bettors see it as "close" going in) will give us much chance, no matter WHAT happens over the next month or so leading up to it.
    Frankly, I LIKE it that way. We will HAVE to have found some things, settled down with "what we got NOW", maybe quietly begun to gel, finally trust in each other as a TEAM. No matter WHAT, we'll have had to at least BEGUN to have re-formed as a full on "new team". Be playing for themselves and each other.
    THEN we MAY have a chance. To "keep it close", at least. And even though I stand by my repeated insistence that up til now, these "come together, win at the end" outcomes last few weeks are much more about the PLAYERS' "heart" and determination than anything the Coaching staff has done or prepared them for. In fact, it ain't a coincidence that, despite more injuries and legal complications among first-line players along the way, we have NOT fallen, in many ways have been "getting better" over that time even so. THAT isn't the Head Coach. No, we are BENEFITTING that much from cutting loose (our staff being MADE to cut loose, by circumstances) just a couple/few guys turns out we should have "cut loose" some time ago (maybe shoulda turned down one in particular during the recruiting process--but we all know how hard it is to turn your back on TALENT: Callaway was/IS a good, potentially GREAT one at a position we had/have great need at). But even with his spreading poisoning of the lives around him, the shadow of his selfishness, greed and poor decisions spreading, hanging over the whole program, we have slowly pulled back together, actually begun to re-form as a TEAM, do MORE with LESS.
    But even then, I don't know that our "best-case-scenario" isn't much more than "a PUNCHERS chance"--and we have yet to show we even HAVE a "PUNCH"! Not a big enough one, one that can be summoned and relied upon to connect against a GOOD team on a confident roll, as UGA is likely to still be. We somehow have got to be Leon Spinks vs Mike Tyson (sorry if I'm mixing up history here: I might be mushing together 2 diff events, but hoping you get the idea here)--and one slight momentary mistake could still easily shatter us, not just for a game but the season...reveal what everyone will come into that game already "KNOWING" is "true".
    Then again, in real life, the "impossible" sometimes really happens. If it were to play out that way here, well, as I promised, I will at the very least shut up for awhile, give this Head Coach and his staff (and by then a TEAM that for its OWN sake will undoubtedly have "bought into the program", and their coaches' supposedly central part in it--the "BELIEF" ITSELF now an integral part of their view of themselves and their success) the benefit of the doubt for the rest of the reg season, let it all play out from there.
    I ALSO noted that I doubted there was much chance actual events would "call the bluff" embodied in that "promise". But, as always in such pessimistic prognostications, when it comes to our Gators, once again: "I HOPE I AM WRONG!!!"
    (God, I hope I'm wrong.)
     
  11. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    We probably lost pretty well our ONLY remaining "deep threat" yesterday when Cleveland had his ankle rolled up on (yikes, that was a horrible replay to watch: we'll be VERY fortunate if he's back even NEAR 100% by UGA). Can't imagine he'll be safe to even start next week against LSU...and we NEED him: We appear to be getting a run game, finally-- one that with the right, cleverly designed scheme might allow us to move the ball even WITH our thin and porous O-line. But unless we have at least the possible THREAT of the long pass, they can eschew pass coverage downfield for the most part, sell out on the run game, bottle us up and storm the QB on the then-inevitable 3rd-and-longs. And so far, for the most part I see little sign that Mac/Nuss have or will have any plan or inclination to counter that, do ANYTHING to shrewdly take advantage of such tactics rather than play INTO them.
    (Again, lets all say it together:
    "God, I hope I'm wrong!")
     

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