• Welcome to Green Bay Packers NFL Football Forum & Community!
    Packer Forum is one of the largest online communities for the Green Bay Packers.

    You are currently viewing our community forums as a guest user.

    Sign Up or

    Having an account grants you additional privileges, such as creating and participating in discussions. Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member! Furthermore, we hide most of the ads once you register as a member!

The TEBOW Watch

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
I love Timmy, but they really need to ban him from throwing in the pocket. Let him roll out to throw. Man, he throws a pretty ball when he is rolling out. Not so much from the pocket.
 

CaliZona_Gator

Super Senior Member
A lot of QB's who are still learning the game are better when they are rolling out. Mark Sanchez is that way too. But I feel like coaches are afraid to let their QB's roll out multiple times in a possession. College level too.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Yup, this is more about the hidebound , stubborn lack of imagination on the part of the "old guard" coaches and GMs in the NFL. Longtime, well-entrenched "conventional wisdom" dictates that "a real NFL quarterback" MUST spend most of his time in the pocket, rolling out being just a variation on the old panicked "scramble" of non-championship QBs on lousy teams, a la Fran Tarkenton--"Oh, they'll run up some yardage, but they'll never win consistently..."
What I am REALLY finding entertaining, even hilarious, is the sputtering incomprehension the various media-analysts and "color-commentators" are now often reduced to on-camera both during the game and in the aftermath: they all climbed on the "He's terrible, he will fail miserably"-bandwagon with their jock pals still in the game, now they're left on their own on an island of naked foolishness, still trying to explain away what they just can't believe they were and are so wrong about.
There's a new expression now: the Jets were the latest team to get "Tebowed" at the end. I'd say to the TV-guys, "Don't look now, fellas, but YOU'VE been TEBOWED too!"
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
A drunken friend of mine commented that Tim Tebow is to NFL football as Kurt Cobain is to rock and roll music. He is not here to play the game. He is here to change the game. Like it or not, he is changing the game.

I am not sure how to take that, but it would explain why Timmy refuses to throw the ball "normally". What gets me is that Timmy really did throw the ball well in college. In the NFL, even in the shotgun, he struggles with throwing. Maybe he will keep pulling miracles out of his rear end this year, but next year he needs to expand on what he did at Florida--throw the ball for 200 yards at 60%+ in addition to running for 100 yards.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
A drunken friend of mine commented that Tim Tebow is to NFL football as Kurt Cobain is to rock and roll music. He is not here to play the game. He is here to change the game. Like it or not, he is changing the game.

I am not sure how to take that, but it would explain why Timmy refuses to throw the ball "normally". What gets me is that Timmy really did throw the ball well in college. In the NFL, even in the shotgun, he struggles with throwing. Maybe he will keep pulling miracles out of his rear end this year, but next year he needs to expand on what he did at Florida--throw the ball for 200 yards at 60%+ in addition to running for 100 yards.
Drunken or not, THAT is a great insight your friend made. I am not sure how exactly to take it either (I'm still considering its various implications), but I do have one connection to note: Kurt didn't care about the "adulation" OR the critics, neither does Tim. However, he HAS I think been listening TOO much to his latest coaches, especially the ones who have been screwing with his head AND his mechanics when it comes to his notorious "throwing motion". You're right, E-. he WAS a really good thrower in college, and I don't buy that "too much time getting it off"-thing--like everything else about him, it is "part of the package", it OBVIOUSLY worked well for him up until they started trying to muck around in there, and at some point maybe he just needs to throw it all out and LET IT FLY! Why else is he literally "the lowest-rated QB in the NFL" for the first 3 qrtrs of his games and "one of the highest rated QBs" in the 4th? Out of 8 games started, he has come back in the 4th qrtr in 4 of them! Why? He just stops thinking about all those things they want him to "think about" and just PLAYS HIS GAME--and not just running either; even the ESPN guys note how "he suddenly gets accurate". It all even has a name now, "Getting "Tebowed"!
One other thing: did you notice Elway's reaction up in the SkyBox to that winning TD-run? Talk about ambivalence! THERE was a guy with the phoniest smile possible on his face: clearly what he was thinking was, "Crap! Now what do I do?" Fox's reaction on the sideline, in contrast, was genuine, if you need a benchmark with which to compare. HE knows that his job depends on winning, ultimately--he didn't believe in TT, he did what the GM wanted, first burying him on the bench, then starting him in hopes of showing the fans that "he's nothing" when they kept on losing--only it has worked out otherwise (no surprise to any Gator--and exactly the way we knew it would). Now , Fox gets at least SOME of the credit for tweaking the offense for TT's supposed skill-set (I STILL think they can get more out of the passing game if they turn him loose from the start), and suddenly he can see maybe keeping this job after all.
Finally, did you hear/see Emmit's comments regarding TT? "I'd have loved to play with him--He's a WINNER!" Right ON, ES!
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
I know Timmy was a better passer in college. That is why I am disappointed in Timmy's performance in the 1st through 3rd quarters. Yeah, I get it. 4th quarter is Tebow Time. Wake up, this will not last long. Timmy can perform in 1st through 3rd quarter. We have seen it. I am tired if the "but he still wins" discussion. I am not comparing Tebow to Newton. I am comparing Tebow's performance to his potential.

He is winning the hearts and minds of some critics and gaining support of veteran athletes.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Again, I agree completely. WE (ie. Gators) know about "Tebow Time" and his penchant for putting a team on his back and winning down the stretch, but HE SHOULDN'T HAVE TO do this every game: He needs to bring his skills to bear throughout the game, and if he doesn't find a way to do this, he is likely to be forced down-to-Earth by NFL-defenses eventually. If his coaches won't help to put him in the best possible position to do this, if they neither design the offense, give him the plays or players, nor support him in his style of play except "when all else fails", he will HAVE to find a way to somehow accomplish this on his own from the start. You just KNOW that the haters and attack-critics will HANG him the moment that he comes up short in one of these games--and Elway is just WAITING for the first chance he can get to go "SEE? We can't depend on THIS!".
He DOES now have his team's support, to a great extent: you could see this by the end of the Jets-game AND in their post-game comments. They see what he's been through (hell, some of them contributed to it, and they KNOW it), and what he has accomplished in the face of it all, so they will follow his lead. If he wants to start calling out his check-offs to "something else", at this point he doesn't just have their "attention", but their full and unequivocal "respect". He could "draw it up in the dirt" now and they would break huddle, go out and try to get it DONE. I'm not saying it has come to that, only that he can and should do more to take control of his own destiny, from the 1st qrtr on, and just "play his game". Either Fox & Co. support him and further adapt to his unique style-of-play, "the whole package", or he makes his case on his own, from start to finish, for everyone ELSE to see.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
(Sigh)...and still the "experts" give credit to everyone BUT TT...makes ANYTHING they say, about anything and everything, impossible to take seriously. There ARE a handful now that have begun to "crack", to break away from the monumental anti-Tebow, anti-fan Wall-of-Media-Resistance, who, like the kid exclaiming that "the Emperor has no clothes!" have begun to proclaim the obvious: "Tebow is FUN TO WATCH!" Interestingly these tend to be the very same people, the very few observers who have noted Elway's demeanor in the Skybox or on the sidelines at the ends of these games, as Tebow AGAIN pulls it out, and called it as it is, a "frozen smile", clearly uncomfortable and disbelieving HIMSELF that "this upstart just won't screw-up, won't even LOSE!", no matter how the odds are stacked against him (even with his own GM, Elway's roll in stacking those odds), the frustration and disappointment showing the truth through his phony forced-smile of supposed satisfaction at another victory.
After last week's openly impatient, pessimistic, even petulant critique of his own streaking starting quarterback (and what self-respecting, half-way competent GM would DO that, seemingly attack his own very young quarterback in the middle of the season and in the middle of a WINNING streak, risk shaking not just that QB's confidence but that of the whole team around him, and possibly undermine their support for him, UNLESS that was in fact what he was TRYING to do?), there can be little doubt in the minds of anyone paying attention, fans OR players for that team, where that GM stands--but with every victory, the one who is made to look more and more foolish, petty and shortsitedly vindictive is John Elway himself. Of course, HE just continues to hate Tim Tebow, and BLAME him for his own accelerating loss-of-status all the more. No wonder that the stories and rumors of Bronco plans to "rid themselves of Tebow" before the start of next season, REGARDLESS of this year's outcome, continue to gather steam. Meanwhile, John Foxx, whose OWN butt was on the line when he was ignoring Tebow (as per orders from the GM) and his team was losing, has become a conditional "Tebow Supporter"--he can't be any WORSE off winning with him than he was LOSING without him, and with the media looking for ANY way to explain this success without giving #15 any credit, Foxx himself has become the defacto "Brilliant designer of an imaginative-if-primitive offense that gives even Tim Tebow and his weird and limited skills an opportunity to succeed"--which is fine with Tim, who is modest and low-key in public ANYWAY , gives credit to his coach and team and just wants his chance out there to lead his team and to WIN.
Sooner or later he WILL lose a game or two (Foxx isn't being flexible ENOUGH--and if he doesn't turn Tebow loose now and then, this ultra-conservative, QB-sneak on 3rd-and-1 instead of a pass into the wide open middle-of-the-field, punt-it-on-4th-and-inches from their side of mid-field when down less-than-7 late in the game and depend on the "D" to always get it back will sooner or later get them beat) and then you KNOW it'll ALL be on Tebow's head. The TV guys will SAY it, and Elway will be waiting there to use it to rationalize his abandonment of "the Tebow Experiment".
 

FrozenGator

Gator Fan
One of my staff asked me who I would choose as a QB instead of Tebow if I was putting a team together. The list is pretty short (Rodgers, Brees, Brady, P. Manning), and he couldn't believe it. Tebow just wants to win more than anyone I've ever seen, and when he's given the opportunity to use his talents and skills, he does win.

Is there another QB (aside from the 4 I mentioned) that commands the sort of respect that Tebow does? Is there another QB for whom his team would run through a wall like the Broncos will for Tebow?

Elway is a boob. He looks in the mirror and sees the best QB the Broncos have ever had, and wants to keep it that way. A GM is motivated by two things: Wins, and Butts in Seats. Tebow is providing both in truckloads, and a reasonable GM would get on that train with a smile on his face; that he has and will not is proof that he has something else in mind than the good of the Broncos.

I have no idea who runs the Broncos, but if it were me, I'd start taking Elway to task every time he opens his mouth and says something negative about the dude who is the future of the team. Simply, Elway has not been a good enough GM (ie: he doesn't sign the "right players" most of the time) to earn himself such loyalty.
 

Swamp Person

Swamp Gator
I been reading up on this. It's many posts up but I think E is spot on with Tim rolling throwing. It looks like HIS comfort zone, HIS pocket.

No fun intended but I'm right handed this throwing motion release form stuff doesn't concern me because like I stated I'm right hand he's left handed. Every one who is left handed looks different to me even when they just write not to mention when they throw, swing or punch. It just looks different. Silly I know but it does. Could this be different for coaches receivers, rb's and linemen? Just throwing this out there. It's prob. been noted before but I'm behind times and to lazy to read 15 pages of posts. lol.....
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Did you SEE the end of the game? Just moments earlier, Tebow drops a bomb right to a WR streaking into the open, HITS HIM ON HIS PALMS--and he drops it! WOULD have been a TD pass to end it (and the headlines and replays would have been over-the-TOP)...instead, it was 4th-and-a-few and they punted; a few plays after the change-of-possession there's the INT, Tebow gets them down close and into the center-of-the-field for the kicker, and GOOD! Another win, and #15 played his usual part in the 4th qrtr bringing them back (actually THREE times late--it wasn't the defense THIS time, not 'til the very end), then putting them in position to win...but it COULD have been "the best one YET" (shouldn't matter, and DOESN'T, to his teammates--THEY were all coming up to him at the end on the sideline and embracing him and saying stuff to him, the way pro-players do when they KNOW who their leader is--but I STILL would have LOVED to have had that one highlight being ALL OVER the news'n'nets tonight and for the next few days, if only to drive the Haters NUTS!).
 

FrozenGator

Gator Fan
Every game, every win, Tebow gets better.

And the Broncos' D might be the most underrated in the NFL. They are keeping the team in the game, and giving Tebow chances to shine.

If Elway opens his fat mouth this week, I hope someone on the team (anonymous works for me) shuts him up with a couple of comments.
 

DRU2012

Super Moderator
Staff member
Super Moderator
Every game, every win, Tebow gets better.

And the Broncos' D might be the most underrated in the NFL. They are keeping the team in the game, and giving Tebow chances to shine.

If Elway opens his fat mouth this week, I hope someone on the team (anonymous works for me) shuts him up with a couple of comments.
It's true--today it was his arm and accuracy that repeatedly played a big part in their keeping up and coming back.
Remember the billboards the fans in Denver paid for themselves, the ones pleading with Mgmt. (ie. ELWAY) to start playing Tebow that were displayed on the main Rd. leading into/past Mile High, where GM and owner HAD to see it as they came to and from the Stadium during that disastrous 0-and-4 opening month of the season? Remember how Elway, after scoffing at the whole idea, finally ordered Foxx to PLAY TT, hardly even TRYING to hide his certainty that he would fail, fall flat on his face and show the fans that Little Johnie Elway was right all along , and their one and only all-time hero?
Looks like the fans have learned a DIFFERENT lesson...
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
Some of those passes were darn pretty, if I don't say so myself. He is growing up before our eyes. Now, the dropped TD pass did flutter and wobble, but it was catchable. Did everyone see his footwork? Also very nice.

Timmy is changing the game. When he "rides the football in the running back's chest", that is another version of play action, a staple of today's football! That is not a gimmick that NFL coaches will figure out and defeat, as some talking heads have stated. When he goes from play action to gap running, that is just safe running. He should actually take fewer hard hits, because he is running into an abandoned gap, not a designed gap. However, he is bulky enough to take some extra hits if he has to hit a designed gap.

His weakness will be against defenses that do well in pass coverage or run blitz, such as Baltimore.
 

Leakfan12

VIP Member
I admit I am worried about their game against the Bears with their D. He looked good plus Thomas should have that TD (the saying is if you have a hands on the ball you have to catch it). Also he beat Ponder, a Nole.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
I am also worried for Little Timmy, but we need to let him fight his battles. The Bears linebackers can drop into pass coverage easily or plug the running lanes. Tebow can still go deep or roll out of the pocket. He may also have some tricks we have not seen yet.
 

Members online

No members online now.

Latest posts

Forum statistics

Threads
20,359
Messages
90,605
Members
1,227
Latest member
NicholeJaX
Top