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TEBOW

DRU2012

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Brady Quinn warming up on the sideline. Maybe he can score 35 points in 20 minutes.
I'm not watching anymore--but that IS a kind of ""it was all Tim's fault"-sign--Hey, it's fine with ME if they bail on TT: maybe the new Jacksonville owners-to-come, instead of moving the team, really DO bring in #15 and a coach and GM who surround him with (as much as practically possible) Florida-talent, attract all kinds of controversy and public attention, fill the stands and...
Who am I kidding? This is a sad day, and I only hope TT gets a CHANCE to "land fairly" and have another go at it, whether it is back next year with Denver or somewhere else, preferably somewhere where there's a smart and imaginative GM with good sense, a level head and his OWN patient plan for PURPOSEFULLY building the kind of offbeat winning formula Denver seemed to mainly stumble into accidentally this past season.
 

Leakfan12

VIP Member
I'm not watching anymore--but that IS a kind of ""it was all Tim's fault"-sign--Hey, it's fine with ME if they bail on TT: maybe the new Jacksonville owners-to-come, instead of moving the team, really DO bring in #15 and a coach and GM who surround him with (as much as practically possible) Florida-talent, attract all kinds of controversy and public attention, fill the stands and...
Who am I kidding? This is a sad day, and I only hope TT gets a CHANCE to "land fairly" and have another go at it, whether it is back next year with Denver or somewhere else, preferably somewhere where there's a smart and imaginative GM with good sense, a level head and his OWN patient plan for PURPOSEFULLY building the kind of offbeat winning formula Denver seemed to mainly stumble into accidentally this past season.

I think he'll be back, He didn't have much of a training camp this season and he will next season. Denver needs to get him more time.
 

DRU2012

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I think he'll be back, He didn't have much of a training camp this season and he will next season. Denver needs to get him more time.
We'll see if Elway actually makes good on his comments last week to the effect that he "would work with" TT on his "fundamentals" in the off-season, after all (didn't you refer to this as Elway "back-pedaling furiously", Lf?)...
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
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Tebow's fundamentals will never change. Solution: build an offense around the things he is good at.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
Hypothetical question: How would Tim Tebow perform if he were in the New England Patriots offense? Reminder: the Patriots have borrowed a lot of plays from the Florida Gators since 2005, at least while Urban Meyer was there. The play books must be similar enough for Tebow to learn quickly, and the concepts are obviously familiar.

Tebow has shown that he will probably be a 50% passer that throws for 150 yards per game in a Pro Style offense or modified Pro Style with sprinklings of option. The game plan in the Denver-Pittsburgh game looked similar to an Air Coryell offense, and Tebow threw for 50% and 300 yards. New England and Green Bay both run a spread-like offense. My guess is that with a spread offense and its vertical seams, Tebow would complete 55% to 60% of his passes for 300 yards a game, and rush for 50 to 100 yards depending on what the defenses do in the box. Specifically, on New England's offense, I think Timmy would nearly match Brady. Timmy still has to learn to complete certain anticipatory throws that Brady is the master of, but he would regain the yardage lost using his own feet. New England has no running game, but with Timmy, Aaron Hernandez, and a random running back, New England would gain the balance it lacked throughout much of the season.
 

DRU2012

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Nothing about what I am about to say is "News"--in fact, it is part of a theme we've watched and all shook our heads at this entire football season--but it bears repeating, and this is as appropriate a time as ever, as the season ends for the Denver Broncos and the players are interviewed for the last time as they are clearing out their lockers and heading their separate ways:
It is both sad and ridiculous that Tim Tebow leaves town, not only somehow under a singular cloud after what can only be described as "a team loss", not just without assurance that he is that team's starting QB heading into NEXT year, but with no certainty that he will even be in their PLANS!
I won't recount here all he accomplished this season for and with the Bronco team and their fans, the way he single-handedly both galvanized that city (and made the Broncos NEWS nationwide), turned around the team's fortunes after a disastrous start, the thrills along the way of a wild ride, where he raised his own game and that of everyone around him, never getting down or sulking on the sidelines while being pointedly ignored, OR doing ANYTHING but humbly giving credit to his teammates and coaches once he DID get in there, took positive control and led them into the playoffs. We're all long aware and tired of the media (and the great pool of rabid haters that they have pandered to) and the way that through it all they have uniformly given credit to the Denver defense and everything and/or everyone else they could think of when they won, while putting it all on Tim when they did not, so there's little surprise that they are doing that now...Why should this loss be any different?
What IS disappointing and somewhat surprising has been the Bronco-players' passive ambivalence in responding to the questions regarding TT's status with the team--questions, as I say, that really shouldn't even be a part of the discussion, by now, but ARE. I understand that everyone is down, numb with shock and disappointment not just at the season-ending loss, but at how badly they were man-handled across-the-board, how they collectively "didn't show up" and instead took a "beat-down". However, even in the overall context of that situation against the background of the season-long criticism and uncertainty (AND the often CLEAR lack-of-enthusiastic support for their young QB--even from their coach, at first, and ESPECIALLY from their iconic GM, right up until overtime last WEEK, let's face it), you'd expect, and certainty like to SEE, an emotionally supportive reaction here and there...Bronco after Bronco had a mike shoved in their faces, as they left the lockerroom in street clothes, and were asked variations on the same question, "Is he your quarterback-of-the-future?", "Has he established himself as the Broncos' franchise QB?", or simply, "Is Tebow the starter heading into Camp next summer?"...You'd think one or two guys on that offense at LEAST would get a LITTLE exasperated and say something like, "What does he have to DO?", or "YOU guys ask questions like that...WE know who our quarterback is.", or something simple and to-the-point, like, "He's young, he's learning...He'd be the first to tell you that he'll work hard to get better--and he WILL--He's a leader with drive and heart". Now, his teammates did try to remain positive in their comments regarding their QB, but it is a mark of how pervasive the management's lack of clear support is throughout the organization that those teammates WERE so careful and conditional in their answers to what SHOULD have been seen as absurd questions, easily dismissed, in a similar situation with any other quarterback, for any other team.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
In order to commit to Tebow, the team has to commit to a non-standard offense. Most teams adopt boring NFL offenses, because it is easier to take the safe route and adopt a common NFL offense. It takes a lot of work to create an offense from scratch. It takes an out-of-the-box thinker to make that commitment. Right now, Josh McDaniels is the only person I can think of who was brave enough to do that. That is a big commitment. I doubt Denver is ready to make that same commitment.
 

DRU2012

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In order to commit to Tebow, the team has to commit to a non-standard offense. Most teams adopt boring NFL offenses, because it is easier to take the safe route and adopt a common NFL offense. It takes a lot of work to create an offense from scratch. It takes an out-of-the-box thinker to make that commitment. Right now, Josh McDaniels is the only person I can think of who was brave enough to do that. That is a big commitment. I doubt Denver is ready to make that same commitment.
Yeah, we all figured that Tim had HAD it with the Broncos from the moment Josh was fired--and subsequent events, his benching (he was relegated to THIRD string at one point early on--and there was talk , only part-joking, of "the practice squad"!) and the clear "party-line", Elway-down-through-Fox, with even his teammates denigrating his skills and boosting Orton (and even Quinn); especially dismissive were the "unnamed players" comments, not surprisingly. The whole tale, the fans' loud and relentless support, the billboard, and the eventual "relenting" by Elway that was REALLY an assumed "opportunity" for management to see him fail miserably, so they could be RID of the problem and controversy "once and for all", only to have it blow up in their faces--in victories and crazy, excited success! Now, it begins to appear that the original "plan" may have still been in place all along. We'll see--but at this point, I'd rather see Tim GET the kind of shot you describe, somehow find his way into a situation where an imaginative coach, backed by a patient and shrewd owner and/or GM who can see the long term possibilities, takes one of the teams long-floundering-in-mediocrity and builds that tailored offense around #15, along with a staunch young defense to keep them IN games regardless, and watch the whole package rock the pro-football world as it comes into its own, leaving the "experts" and pundits sputtering, scratching their heads and falling over each other trying to explain something simple that somehow never occurred to any of them.
 

DRU2012

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PostScript:
It was announced late this afternoon from Broncos Headquarters that Tim Tebow "had earned the right to start for this team in 2012".
Though that statement amounts to a self-evident truth that was already obvious to any Gator or Bronco fan with two eyes and the slightest sense of fairness and/or the most basic familiarity with the game of football, this outcome was far from clear or automatic in the strange nether-world of bias and controversy where power, pride and public opinion collide with sport and politics on the world stage--a complicated way of saying that this time, it seems, "right and fair" has won a narrow victory over "selfish and stupid", at least for a little while.
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
All I wanted for Timmy was the opportunity to prove himself. He proved that he can beat a cover-2 defense, but needs to work on beating man to man. He proved that he can run for 5 yards per carry up the middle or 4 yards around the left side, but needs a tight end to help with protection and outlet receiving. He proved he can make some NFL throws, but needs to work on anticipatory throws. He proved he will always be a 50% passer in a pro style offense, but we will always speculate if he can throw for 60% in a spread offense like the Patriots.

Summary: he has proven a lot, but shown everyone he needs work. The hidden message is that the entire offense needs to change slightly around him, either in personnel or tactics.
 

DRU2012

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All I wanted for Timmy was the opportunity to prove himself. He proved that he can beat a cover-2 defense, but needs to work on beating man to man. He proved that he can run for 5 yards per carry up the middle or 4 yards around the left side, but needs a tight end to help with protection and outlet receiving. He proved he can make some NFL throws, but needs to work on anticipatory throws. He proved he will always be a 50% passer in a pro style offense, but we will always speculate if he can throw for 60% in a spread offense like the Patriots.

Summary: he has proven a lot, but shown everyone he needs work. The hidden message is that the entire offense needs to change slightly around him, either in personnel or tactics.
Pretty neatly sums up the current situation--and leaves open, of course, the question of whether he'll actually get either the chance or, just as importantly, the TOOLS to complete your "formula for success".
Here is that question, stated bluntly and without niceties:
Is it blindness, stubbornness, cowardice or stupidity that will most likely have to be overcome here in order for that formula to be implemented?
 

DRU2012

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I have been studying and considering further Elway's press release regarding Tebow's status with the Broncos, and, while I may be more cynically suspicious than most, the more I do, the less confident I am that said statement is anything more than a kind of "oil on troubled waters", a smoke screen that SOUNDS like a "fair and even-handed endorsement" of a player that is hugely popular with local fans, but whom Elway himself still has little confidence in--or any real plans to rely on.
Moreover, among Elway's ex-jock pals, apologists and known suck-ups in the media, the loud and repetitive refrain since Saturday has been NOT that the Broncos were so bad, but that TEBOW "had just a terrible game", "disastrous", "monstrous", "wretched"--look, he did not perform well, and I'm not going to try to make excuses for him, but every phase of whatever was the offensive game plan was wrecked from their first possession on--he was running for his life, PERIOD. The only thing served by blaming what ensued on Tebow alone is to provide a rationale for moving him aside, and eventually, moving him OUT. Unfortunately, nothing in that press release rules out that eventual move--especially against a background of revisionist coverage where Tebow as the "weakest link" is established and repeated locally in certain quarters.
 

Leakfan12

VIP Member
Here's a good question, Why is Ryan Clady a Pro Bowler? Michael Oher deserve it more. Anybody think Clady did his job protecting Tebow?
 

DRU2012

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Here's a good question, Why is Ryan Clady a Pro Bowler? Michael Oher deserve it more. Anybody think Clady did his job protecting Tebow?
You're right, of course...makes you wonder...

(Meanwhile, this from Colin Cowhurd: "I'm done bashing Tebow--it's too easy. I pity him. Everyone else sees it now, what I've said all along, and it gets to be like piling on. It's just SAD, just sorry to watch..."
This one was so absurd, so over-the-top wrong on so many counts, in so many ways, on every level...It actually made me laugh! Where normally his endless, ratings-grabbing ploy of disparaging Tebow at every turn in that nasal nails-on-glass voice of his just irritates and sends me reaching for the presets-buttons on my Alpine, this one got me laughing out loud in my car. For this endless whiner, of all people, to claim that he supposedly somehow PITIES Tim Tebow in his personal and professional life is about the most ridiculous thing I've heard from ANY media-person in some time--and that's saying something.
Here is the email I sent to their "Fan Response"-address--and simultaneously to the call-in poll-show with Beadle, "SportsNation" (doubt it gets past an intern, tho'):
"Oh yes, Colin, Tim Tebow's life is just a dark slide into the abyss of failure compared to yours, clearly. It's been a nightmare thus far, all that glory and success on-the-field at a school and program that he loved, where that love was returned to him a thousandfold. Heisman Trophy, first round draft pick, finally winning the starting job and leading stirring comebacks, all against mounting odds and endless naysayers. Now, despite great effort and unexpected success (to everyone but himself), he MIGHT have to go to another TEAM and be paid millions to get a chance to show what he can really do on a football field...OR, if worse-comes-to-worst, he MIGHT never really get that chance, eventually to retire with those millions and walk away from all the over-heated attention and life-in-a-fishbowl foolishness he never asked for in the first place, doesn't require or take seriously ANYWAY and, by his very nature, won't miss when it's gone. That's the WORST-case scenario. I'm pretty certain Tim Tebow is gonna be OK with his life, regardless. Save your pity for yourself, Colin: I guess that's how guys like you always end up having so much of it--self-pity, that is--as life goes on.")
 

Escambia94

Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE)
Moderator
Tebow absolutely needs to work harder in the offseason on getting rid of the ball, and anticipating the open receiver. If he improves on that, the Colin Cowterds of the world will have less to complain about. Skip Bayless was right. "All Tebow does is win" as long as Denver "unleashes Tim Tebow". Until Denver creates the Unleash Tim Tebow Offense, Timmy needs to work on counting to 3, anticipating the receiver, and throwing. Don't try to fix the mechanics. Do work on footwork. Do not stare down receivers on certain routes. Note which routes you can stare down receivers (hint: spread offense does this all the time).
 

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