Looking for help ......

[Swamp Person]

Ok my friends at GE I need your help. There is talk on here in many places about us being able to throw the ball. Throwing it DOWN the field instead of our quick stuff which is working good enough to beat the teams we've faced so far. But here comes trouble it's the October run of all runs. It's showtime this week. The Tide is coming to town which has me wondering how we will fair against them. I know alot of comments (mine included) have been voiced on the subject but with four games in the books seeing how our passing game is going I have to think that this is ALL we got. Not that it is a bad thing if it would or could work. I'm loving our little screens quick tosses which I posted at the start of season I wish we would do and have done to build our team up. But now it's time to come to the conclusion that that is our biggest strongest advantage. Which to me if someone BALLS UP commits to stuffing the box and shutting it down is there anything more we could do to avoid this from happening. I for one know the Tide has the Balls to do this.

My point is Do we got the trimmings to stretch the field with anything or anyone on our Beloved Gators? We've looked good thus far but I just don't see Demps and Rainey taken us thru this next long month after seeing them getting hurt or dinged from running these boys to death in these first four games. I know Reed and others are coming back this week. But is there something missing from the puzzle? Or is this the new Gators that were just not used to. Are we spoiled from our past years of seeing other QBs fire at will down the field? I know this seems like I'm beating a dead horse but I'm trying to figure out is this it or not. If this is it does anyone out there think this will work on our next adventures this month?

Please fire the comments good our bad. Just keep in mind we've won four so far with this but is it going to be the bread and butter of the rest of the year?

 

[CaliZona_Gator]

I have plenty of confidence in our offense. We must keep in mind that the teams we will be playing in these upcoming games are a lot better than any of the teams we have played so far. Our offense won't do as well. And that's just because of the talent level of the opposing defenses.

I am one who has been arguing that our offense is just fine right now, and that our passing game has been deep enough. This is what our offense looks like. Weis likes to run the deep post, and I think he is looking at our TE's to run that route. I understand everyone's concerns though. I too do not want to rely on the short passes to Demps and Rainey (we used a whole lot less of them against UK). I have confidence that the coaches are smart enough to move away from that play if teams start shutting it down.

You brought up a good point about us being spoiled. We saw Tebow throw a lot of deep balls because he had NFL quality receivers in Murphy, Harvin, Cooper, & Nelson. (3 NFL starters, and Cooper buried in a stacked depth chart). Plus Tebow had the one man play action that brought in the safeties regularly. We can't overlook those two facts.

 

[DRU2012]

Missed ya Saturday, SP...I've written so much about this very subject, it's late and I don't feel like going over it all again here (and many of our colleagues here will likely say "Thank God..." to THAT). The VERY short version is that I feel we'll HAVE to throw it to have a chance, that I doubt #12 is up to it, and therefore our tough and brave "D" will ultimately get worn down, that the Tide's running game and clock-control will eventually accomplish this: they will pull away and win a game that was close until the 4th qrtr. A much clearer and better-explained version of my conclusions is on pg.6 of the "Official Gameday Thread: Florida @ Kentucky", at or near the end, right after Escambia'94's comment...
Before THAT, on pg.5 of the same thread, I really get into a full breakdown of all the evidence, logic and reasons that lead eventually to what I feel are the only possible alternative possibilities for what could happen in this next game. It is covered in TWO successive long "comments"--from which you (or anyone else, for that matter) can draw your own conclusion(s) regarding possible outcomes. It comes down to what you believe about John Brantley and our offense, I suppose. Give 'em a glance, anyway--heck, I spent enough time thinking and writing about all of this last night!

 

[Escambia94]

No. We do not have the ability to stretch the field, at least not enough to scare Alabama or LSU. What that means is that we had better be better at our short game than they are at stopping our short game. And what that means is that we are going to have to tell our opponents, "Look, guys. We don't have a long ball game, so we are coming at you with Shake and Bake. Try to stop 'em. If you stuff the box, we will throw to the flats. If you seal the perimeter, we will dink it over the box to Burton. Just don't waste your time going cover-2, because we will only go deep once in a while and Brickhands will drop it, or we will get a procedural penalty nullifying that play. Oh, don't let our running backs slip behind your front 3, because that is our secret weapon thanks to the players we have leftover from a spread-option offense."

To quote Charlie Weis, "we are who we are". And who we are is a team that will run Demps and Rainey off-tackle or around the edges, screen to the edges, dink over the defensive line, or pound it with Joyer, Burton, and Gillislee. If you want to know what that looks like, find some videos of the old Wayne Peace days. This offense worked well back in the early 1980s when we upset USC and Miami, except our running backs are 15 pounds lighter and 1 second faster in the 40.

We have no choice but to hope a methodical application of this simplified Charlie Weis offense will get us through the gauntlet. I think it could work, but it will not be pretty.

 

[ShortBus]

We have no choice but to hope a methodical application of this simplified Charlie Weis offense will get us through the gauntlet. I think it could work, but it will not be pretty.

can't look any worse than it did last year.......

 

[Escambia94]

True. I *think* the difference this year is that Charlie Weis has a page 2 to his playbook. CW has a simple plan--run his scripted plays, note the ones that work and re-use them, trash the ones that do not work, and throw in additional plays if the team can run them. Last year, whether we blame Meyer or Addazzio, we scripted 3 plays, and never deviated from those 3. The dive and option only worked with a mobile QB (Tebow), the inside pitch only worked with a quick TE (Hernandez), the zone-read only worked if the offensive line was creating a seam for Rainey or Demps (2005-2009 offensive line). Beyond those plays there, we really did not run much more. This year, we have run a couple different plays out of a couple different formations. We essentially tell the opponent what we are going to do and dare them to stop it. When it stops working, we adjust. When it still does not work, we go back to what we are good at and try our best. That last part has not been challenged yet.

 

[DRU2012]

Oh yeah, we are DEFINITELY better than last year: better, and better OFF, in every way...And E- makes good points about our running game--the most important and hopeful one is about the unique quality of our two small RBs:
"Speed Kills", as the saying goes, and that other-worldly speed, distinct to each--where one is fast-twitch quick-change direction AND speed, and the other is just.....plain.....................................FAST (he's gone!)
That is a kind of wildcard, and one that you have to expose yourself elsewhere in order to even try to stop--and it may well beat you at some point ANYWAY, in addition to all the ways the opponent may exploit your OVER-commitment to stop it in the first place.
I also recognize that CW is a shrewd and creative guy, that he does have a "pg. 2", so that when the Head Coach talks vaguely but confidently today about being "content and impressed with our passing in practice", and "John throwing the ball all over the field" in "plays we haven't been running" before this, that combination of creative game-planning and detailed scripting goes hand-in-hand with "going with what works" in an evolving offense, and using the unexpected to knock a strong opponent back on its heels in a hostile environment. "We are what we are" doesn't exclude "We just haven't shown you all of it", or even "...and, uh, we've been working on a few new things". These are good and valid reasons for hope.
I've already well-covered my fears, and the logical arguments for why they are well-founded, so I'll not belabor them any further here (they'll be widely repeated and accepted as "conventional wisdom" in the coming days in any event, something that puts me in unwanted company and frankly has me looking for every hole in the logic train--and wanting so badly to be wrong that I will do everything possible to henceforth distance myself from them; I admit to my weird state-of-mind in this, protecting myself by admitting to seeing "reason", yet wishing I could be the blindly faithful fan who BELIEVES, no matter what...oh well: "We are what we are" applies to each of US, too...).

 

[CaliZona_Gator]

Watch it E.... I thought we agreed to not mention a certain name this year.... a certain name that uses the letter Z.

 

[DRU2012]

Oh yeah--for shame!(Where necessary, "that guy at Temple" or something like it will do)

 

[InkedAdrenaline]

can't look any worse than it did last year.......

This!!

 

[Escambia94]

Watch it E.... I thought we agreed to not mention a certain name this year.... a certain name that uses the letter Z.

Doh! My mistake. I will stick to Dazzler or the guy at Temple.

 

[Swamp Person]

http://www.gatorzone.com/carter/blog/531 Ok everyone this might be old news but it's music to my ears. DRU sorry I been out of pocket for the last few days but I been peeking in on everything going on in here.It looks like my thoughts have been coming threw from some of the posts on here.lol

With the kitchen sink getting thrown around now helps me out a lot with the added opinions of several of the GE vets here. I'm just beside myself trying to figure out our point of attack for the next month.(It's why I don't coach). I don't like the unknown things that norm slip thru the cracks and get you.But with this statement (the unknown) I guess it may be how our opponents might be viewing us as well. In their eyes everything Brantley might be short, boring, or in other words so so QB. If it is some kind of smoke screen we been sending out the last four games then wouldn't it get someone like (me) who likes thinking they know their opponents strengths and weaknesses off guard.< This doesn't just effect the coaching but as a old HS player it shows up on the key players on the team. Such as the D playing soft on the mid to deeper routes because ( I ) didn't think they would go that route even tho I been warned by the coaches in practice. The coaches will pick up on it quick but it might be just one play to late.I know right now these things are not proven or they may be wishes from a pure Gator who doesn't want to except our weakness but I'm digging every ones thoughts on how it could play out.

SIDE NOTE: Remember if all else fails we do got ourselves a good long field goal kicker. In the back of my mind he may be holding the unseen key to the win this weekend at The Swamp.

 

[Escambia94]

My fear is that we are going to try getting cute and may deviate from what we are good at. We are good at screen passes, swing passes, and blitzes. We are not good at long ball, power running, or interceptions. I will be surprised if we had been holding back that much this far into the season.

 

[DRU2012]

I don't know, E-...my head (and both anecdotal AND analytical data) says you are probably right, and maybe our best chance is to just stay with what we know we can do, maybe throw a few wrinkles at 'em in the WAYS we get it to our proven playmakers, try to match scores with 'em up against OUR tough "D", and hope to maybe nip them with a FG or two late in the 4th (yeah, SP, that's what you are saying--but that's the ONLY way 3-pointers can win this thing for us: if we keep settling for them early after getting inside the redzone we'll be screwed this time when we're down too much at the end).
That just puts us on track for "slow death", though, I fear--and what's more, I think our coaches fear that too, though what Weis can realistically "unveil" at this point in the season is another question entirely, the answer to which will determine what Brantley and the receivers are TRULY able to contribute in breaking down the Tide defense on Saturday--indeed, whether they can "break it down" at all.
But I've talked about all of that already, the why's and how's and maybe's of what is likely to happen, the the sinking-feeling-in-my-gut reasons why that won't be enough, and how I THINK it will turn out...I've talked about my hopes, too, the things that could happen if this or that were to be tried and the bounces went our way. I just hate so much to find us depending on anything but skill, heart, leadership and coaching for a win, and dread the experience of watching us lose, in any form: no matter how hard I try to prepare myself for it, and rationalize the forces at work that should ready me for that outcome, it's still gonna hurt, and I'm still gonna HATE it--because, deep down I ALWAYS still HOPE, and can't help but care, no matter what.
So: I'm done belaboring my pessimism. At the risk of feeling all the more frustrated later, from here on out (at least until gametime--I make NO promises about my behavior once the ball is kicked off) I will try to be constructive in approaching just what we might be able to do to WIN this thing.
Well, just one little detour along the way: I've had a long day and am tired now, so I won't post it now, but I've been considering something, a line of thinking which I may very well put up as its own thread by tomorrow night.
The idea, just to give y'all a chance to start considering it yourselves, comes from all the stuff OTHER folks are saying about us--on local sports-talk-radio here in Texas, and on the national level in ALL media (television, radio, columns and blogs)--AND I'M SICK OF IT! It doesn't even matter that some of it is stuff I've been talking about: it's one thing for US to worry and prod our players and plans and everything we've seen so far, but that doesn't mean it's OK when everyone else starts down-grading us, makes putting us down "conventional wisdom". There are a few people whose faces I'd really like to rub in Gator-Victory SOONER rather than later. Got me thinking about hope and frustration and pride, and all the things I HATE about not being able to DO much about it EXCEPT hope--hope, and WAIT, at least for now.
I'l talk about that tomorrow.

 

[Escambia94]

Keep in mind that technically the Arkansas offense is a blend of Erhard Perkins (New England, or Charlie Weis) and Air Coryell. Alabama shut down the Air Coryell and made them pay for using Erhard Perkins. Translation: when we throw, those receivers can not drop the ball, and the running backs need to move the ball.

 

[DRU2012]

Can't argue. I am at the tense-feeling-in-my-gut-stage already--have been all day. Makes me impatient.
Just want to get to gametime (did it HAVE to be tomorrow NIGHT?) and see what happens.
I mentioned before I had a whole thread in mind on all the things I HATE about where things are at for us right now, sort of a "Hatin' On The Haters"-thread, but I worked late putting out some fires (courtesy mainly of that colleague that "really hates the Gators"--does anyone imagine I'm naive enough to think that was a coincidence?)--it's just one MORE thing to HATE, and frankly, I'm overloaded...here's a few of 'em, in the hope that maybe I can unload some of this right now:
I HATE the way they're all making out this Alabama team to be some unstoppable juggernaut.
I HATE the way these "experts" pat us on the head, say we're "talented" and "coming along faster than expected", but will probably drop us ten places if we lose by a point--to that "unstoppable juggernaut".
I HATE that WE aren't the "Big Bad Boys" anymore OURSELVES, the 800 lb. gorilla-in-the-corner that cannot be ignored--I HATE that that feeling and reality was so fleeting, even though I know so well why that is and understand how and why it will return in the not-so-distant future (BUT I STILL HATE "the guy at Temple", and yes, the whole way our program slowly but steadily festered, then crumbled from within over the course of the two years AFTER that '08 Championship, and the way our then-beloved coach seemed to lose his way, then lose control of his team, until at the end there was nothing left of the great coach who once strove for excellence).
I HATE watching ANY team that wilts under pressure, ESPECIALLY when they're playing a team I despise--always have, but since that '09 SEC-Championship Game and everything after, I HATE it all the more, in ANY team. I just watched Utah St. (coached by one of Urban's "guys" at Utah, btw), with a 2-score lead well into the 4th qrtr. after outplaying BYU (a team and program that I HATE) until then, eventually blow that lead and the game with 12 seconds left because they went into a shell on BOTH sides of the ball, and let a 2nd-string QB who used to play for THEM beat 'em by doing a rather clumsy, 2nd-rate impersonation of Tim Tebow on 2 successive drives. WE had the real thing, and still managed to look inept, and finally put ourselves on the losing end. I HATED even more when it got to be a habit.
I HATE that we STILL aren't sure if we have a quarterback who can do the basic things in the passing game that every QB for a major college football program (and a number of MINOR ones) can do--nor are we at all sure any of his WRs will come through for him if it turns out he DOES, which he AND they better damn well be ready to do tomorrow.
You see what's happening? It's like a damn breaking...I'm just getting going, too: I've only scratched the surface of all the things I could HATE on right about now.
No, I'm done with it. On the "Prediction Time"-thread I publicly declared my decision to go with some fleeting hope, and that's how I have to approach this game: Gators with a close win-at-the-end in a Swamp-gone-WILD.
I figure there's little for me to lose--I can never quite convince myself with my own pessimism, no matter how well-founded analytically, and it ends up hurting just as much anyway. If that's WAY off, I'll know it early and deal with it (probably turn it off and go see the girlfriend--who I warned off for this one, considering how tight I'm wrapped for this one already)...if it IS close and turns against us at the end (my original read), we'll ALL deal with that.
In either of these cases, my HATE may serve me well once again, this time to buffer the pain...but IF we can pull this out, IF we could win this one in the Swamp, then maybe a lot of that HATE gets washed away, turned to happiness, humor and whooping joy. Maybe I should go down to Champions and the Gator Watch Party for mutual moral support, either way.
Not MUCH riding on this , huh? I don't gamble with cash like I once did (only professional poker, my last remnant of a once-rampant vice--but I don't consider that gambling...or as W.C. Fields once put it, "A Game of Chance, sir?"
--"Not the way I play it!"), but I wonder if this is any less dangerous. The rest of my weekend is ALWAYS riding on the outcome, hell, the rest of that WEEK...but this time it goes further, and deeper.
We're not "back" yet, I know that (and yes, I HATE that, too). I didn't mean to care this much, this soon. I came in knowing we'd lose some games this year, but now I can see the signs of how far we've come already and how good we're going to be. No matter what, we should neither take too much nor too little from the outcome of this one game, win or lose--but I'd rather we whip these arrogant mofos, 'cause I HATE THE TIDE.

 

[Swamp Person]

RIGHT ON BROTHA. My heart is pumping two times more then it should. God help us win it....I need it......