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Bye Bye Muschomp

Discussion in 'Gator Football' started by Leakfan12, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. Leakfan12

    Leakfan12 VIP Member

    South Carolina fired him.
     
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  2. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Weird hire, weird stint.
    When here, he built a formidable defense—but couldn’t seem to recognize effective offense, or someone he could hire to get it done, if the reincarnation of Knute Rockne came through his door with a glowing aura around himself!
    Then he gets to South Carolina (did Lou Holtz & Co think that it was the “UF-connection” that was the key to what made bringing Spurrier in there work??! Did they not look and/or see a little deeper???) and somehow seemed to forget all he knew about DEfense but finally seemed to grasp a few things about “effective scoring-offense”!
    I didn’t hate Muschamp; he wasn’t/isn’t a two-faced chump like MacElwane; I think he cares about his boys WHEREVER he coaches, and he TRIED to be a Gator—but aside from the SERIOUS problem of being inept in building and/or COACHING offense while here, in retrospect he was clearly “wrapped too tight” for the job: As for that time here, as it turned out he was NEVER “a good fit”.
    Just as Trask shows the contrast of “the right QB” after so many “misses”, Dan Mullens shows the similar contrast at Head Coach!
     
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  3. Escambia94

    Escambia94 Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE) Moderator

    I really wanted Muschamp to succeed at Florida. Alas, this was not the case. Here is a quick summary of his career in Hogtown. His successes and failures were largely shaped by his choice of offensive coordinator. Muschamp was paid about $13.7M/ 5 years with occasional bonuses and pay bumps along the way. He was fired by Florida in 2014 with 3 years remaining on his deal, meaning he was paid $8M over a period that spanned 2015-2017. (Note that Jim McElwain coached at UF from 2015-2017 and will be paid $7.5M over the span of 2018-2021...after negotiating down from $12.9M and having McElwain pay $2M to Colorado State out of that $7.5M, netting $5.5M to McElwain).
    • 2011 7-6 (3-5), Gator Bowl (W, Ohio State)
      • OC: Charlie Weis, $2.6M/ 3 years
    • 2012 11-2 (7-1), Sugar Bowl (L, Louisville)
      • OC: Brent Pease, $1.8M/ 3 years
    • 2013 4-8 (3-5), No bowl game
      • OC: Brent Pease, $1.8M/ 3 years + bonus from 2012
    • 2014 6-5 (4-4), did not coach the bowl game (Birmingham Bowl, W, East Carolina)
      • OC: Kurt Roper, $1.2M/ 2 years + compensation from Duke University
    The knock against Cheeseburger Charlie is that he was a mercenary for hire. Muschamp knew that he needed a good offensive coordinator in order to successfully follow up Urban Meyer at Florida, but Charlie apparently was not invested in the Gators nor was his offense well suited to the personnel on the roster. As we would see later in his stint at Kansas, his offense was not well suited for any roster.

    Brent Pease, as it turns out, is not a good coach. Pease made his name off Kellen Moore's success. Pease's offenses at Washington and UTEP were equally horrendous. Pease was fired after three games in 2017. His offenses after Florida were even worse than the ones at Florida.

    Kurt Roper is possibly a mediocre coach. He was marginally better than Brent Pease in one year at Florida. He followed Muschamp to South Carolina and was the QB coach for a team that went 3-9. Fun fact: Muschamp's OC at the time was former Gator QB G.A. Mangus (UF 1988-1991). Roper's stints as QB coach and RB coach at NC State have been mediocre to bad.

    Will Muschamp was 28-21 (17-15) at Florida and 28-30 (17-22) at South Carolina for an overall head coaching record of 56-51 (34-37). I do not get a vote, but I think he should go back to being a defensive coordinator or a DB coach. I assume Nick Saban will hire him as a quality analyst before some other team picks him up.
     
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  4. Leakfan12

    Leakfan12 VIP Member

    Muschomp was 1-4 against the Gators. I wonder what would have been if Cheeseburger Charlie would have stayed another year. Would it made a difference? Seriously who leaves G-Ville for Kansas? Pease probably was an OC in name only when Florida hired him from Boise State. Chris Petersen was the play-caller.
     
  5. Escambia94

    Escambia94 Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE) Moderator

    There were rumors that Charlie did not plan on staying long after taking the job. I do not remember what the rumors were, but supposedly it had something to do with him having established medical care for his autistic daughter near Kansas City from his time as the Chiefs OC. That could have been a cover-up story, since Kansas City, MO and Lawrence, KS are 3 hours apart. Maybe he could not tolerate the heat and humidity of Gainesville? If Cheeseburger Charlie had found his cheeseburgers in paradise there in Gainesville, I think he would have been better than Pease and Roper. I also read somewhere that Charlie did not have a vested interest in building the team based on athletes available in Florida. Some would argue that if he had stayed he would have been able to find the recruits he needed. Regardless, the point is that he was ready to leave rather early in his tenure in Hogtown, and the Kansas job conveniently opened up in 2010.

    History is showing that Chris Petersen was the genius behind Boise State, and that Kellen Moore was the embodiment of that genius.

    Roper is showing us that he should never have left David Cutliffe at Duke.
     
  6. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    My take “overall” on the analyses proposed by E— above:
    Only Petersen is worth a DIME among the whole FLOCK of floundering “experiments” that, in retrospect, comprised that group of “media experts’ collective buzz” seeming to be the main rationale governing decisions during that period;
    At the time, we just couldn’t quite figure out why our offense kept failing—failing MISERABLY!
    Is it so baffling NOW?
     
  7. Leakfan12

    Leakfan12 VIP Member

    He tried to be a Gator more than once. He actually spent time in Gainesville as a kid and tried to walk-on for Florida but Spurrier missed the meeting for some reason and Muschomp went to Georgia (seriously why?). Didn't we have high hopes for him? Yes, he was better than Mcdumby.
     
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  8. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    Yes—we can confidently say THAT much, at least...As for where they’ve left themselves at THIS juncture though, well, I think the first step is to back away from the problem of being outclassed by their cross-state ACC rival: For a long time, the “SEC Advantage” seemed to a large extent to help keep them in THAT race—but no longer, obviously.
    They need to just set that aside for now:
    It will be a more-than-large-enough-challenge just rebuilding their program and accompanying “brand” as a competitive midrange SEC program.
    The idea of going head-to-head with Dabo’s Boys will have to wait for a bit...They’ll find the ongoing struggle there tough enough on a direct, regional (especially in-state) player-by-player level for the time being: Only time, persistence and a slow-but-steady climb back, with inevitable setbacks AND victories will eventually see their return—and even THAT will vary depending on who they bring in, how apt a choice it is AND how patient and realistic the administration, boosters and fans manage to be.
    “There aren’t many Spurriers out there...EVER!” If they didn’t know that before, you’d have to figure they’d realize it by now! That was a peculiar set of circumstances, an extreme confluence of history, factors and personalities all coming together at a particular time to produce a particularly flukey set of realities—and VOILA! “Lightening in a bottle” turns eventually to a sizzling dying spark, leaving only darkness.
    Just sayin’...They don’t want OUR advice—but at this point, we can be forgiven for offering it unbidden: “You got yourSELVES into this mess, Gamecocks!”.
    There’ll be no “magic FIX”. Nothing but squarely facing things as they ARE, getting the right people then WORKING your way forward, will get you back into the thick of “competitive”, at least.”
    THEN you can turn to trying to slay the cross-state monster: In the meantime maybe the vicissitudes of luck and fate will bring them somewhat BACK to you in overall dominance out there. Like everyone else, in the meantime YOUR hire’s job, whoever that may be, as always will come down to just working on making YOURSELVES a better team and program. That journey, for now will be your main concern—and for now “getting better” will have to be enough!
     
  9. Escambia94

    Escambia94 Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE) Moderator

    Will Muschamp was the right hire at the time. The SEC Network calls him "the most SEC of all the coaches". He has been an assistant or head coach on more SEC teams than anyone else: LSU, Auburn, Florida, South Carolina. I doubt he leaves the SEC for his next gig, whenever that will be.

    The fact of the matter is that there are different types of head coaches. Some are offensive geniuses who depend on hiring defensive assistants (Steve Spurrier). Some are defensive geniuses who depend on hiring offensive assistants (Will Muschamp). Some are CEO types who manage programs with some hands-on (Nick Saban). Some are program builders (Matt Rhule). We as fans are infatuated with offensive geniuses as head coaches, and it turns out that this approach works in some situations and not others. Will Muschamp was brought to Florida to be a defensive genius who brings in offensive assistants, and he failed miserably. He was brought back to Auburn as an assistant to bring back defensive fundamentals needed for the Tigers to compete with Auburn--and it helped them for a year or two. He was brought to South Carolina to be a rebuilder, to continue what Steve Spurrier had built. I think he should focus on being a defensive assistant for a while, because the SEC needs some defense. I would not mind bringing him back to Florida as a quality analyst for a year or two. Ron English (Assistant Coach, Safeties) and Torrian Gray (Assistant Coach, Cornerbacks) are fine coaches, but they could use some external perspective.
     
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  10. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    I like the thinking behind all you recommend here—but given the actual behind-the-scenes circumstances (pride, the fans in his HOME TOWN having rejected him, and oh/by-the-way as SS so wryly—if somewhat undiplomatically—pointed out, he has shrewdly parlayed the whole process into making himself a wealthy man...Would he even ACCEPT such a position, if offered—and WOULD we “offer”, unless it was damn near a “pro Bono” agreement, just to “keep himself in the thick of things”, able to perhaps belatedly prove a point, AND do so WITHOUT jeopardizing his current “hard won gravy train”?
    These kind of “buy out” contracts often involve “conditions” that preclude your taking another COMPETING coaching job without sacrificing all or a healthy CHUNK of your “agreed upon”, now “still-OWED balance” from your LAST job.
     
  11. Escambia94

    Escambia94 Aerospace Cubicle Engineer (ACE) Moderator

    After watching Grantham's defense get lit up again, I think it would be good for him to get some outsider perspective from a fellow defensive coach like Muschamp. All of the other Gator forums are calling for Grantham to be fired, but I do not see a scenario where Mullen fires his buddy Grantham.
     
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  12. DRU2012

    DRU2012 Super Moderator Staff Member Super Moderator

    It’s actually pretty damn over-reactive—to the point of “typical mob foolishness”.
    I DO like your thinking vis a vis bringing in an “outside consultant” for “external perspective”, though!
    As a matter of fact, Saban and Bama are absolute EXPERTS on this kind of thing...You see, you bring in these guys who have been “bought out” but are restless (to the point of NEEDING ACTION OF SOME KIND), find a way of bringing them in through SOME “legal crack” in their contract to “consult—externally” (“Hello Charlie Strong!”, who has a condo in Tuscaloosa now, by-the-by—and some say the same overtures are ALREADY being made to Muschamp)—and in this way not only gain more high-quality help, but DENY it TO ANYONE ELSE! Pretty damn shrewd—which is just another way of describing Nick Saban, no?
     
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