Where Did The Magic Go?

DRU2012 · Oct 23, 2010

OK. I guess I'm the guy who asks the obvious-but-somehow-forbidden questions, so I'll ask this one. I'm far from the first who's mentioned it, but now I'll place it front and center (No, it's not the one in the title, although that one may be answered here...):
Is the reason for the Gator's slide, first slight and just worrisome (last season), then more and more noticeable as it gathered pace this year, simply a matter of Meyer losing too many talented "assistants", the guys who were REALLY behind the rise in the first place?
Is this something Meyer faced during his "crisis"? Is he trying to prove differently now? The implications for the future (for Meyer AND our program) are enormous, either way. There is so much to be said about this, whether you support or refute it, but I intend to leave that to y'all this time.
Like an essay question: "Discuss."

GainesvillebornNraised · Oct 23, 2010

meyer just never replaced mullen just gave daz the job and as we all know he sucks

i think we need a good hire from the outside

The Zooker · Oct 23, 2010

I know where the magic went. It went to the Minnesota Vikings. I think Percy had more to do with our last two titles than any other player. When we'd be in a tough spot, Percy would come through with an electrifying play to get the team back in action for the win. He broke the big plays that saved our butts time and again.

DRU2012 · Oct 23, 2010

Mullen's just one example. Strong's work with the "D" is evidently sorely missed as well. Then there are the position coaches who've left (not to mention at least ONE who is too busy in the other duties he's been promoted into charge of to give much attention to his once "specialty, the "O" line; many would say ALL have suffered for this arrangement!).
Everywhere these people have gone their programs are on the rise; meanwhile, ours is headed downward as we lose them. We "can" get the best people to replace them, but have we? Where do the actions and insights of our Head Coach fit in all of this?
Is this all just so obvious that it's boring? Irritating? Frustrating? Hopeless?
OK, OK, maybe just uninteresting. I'll lay off.

DRU2012 · Oct 23, 2010

@ Zooker re Percy:
True, but he was hurt and unavailable a lot too, also just like w/the Vikings.
Percy DAZZLED when he was in, though...it DOES remind the difference even ONE wild-card-playmaker can make--and begs the question once again, why not play the freshmen and see what we've got over there? Known quantities hurt and/or less-than-overwhelming, season slipping away, spark(s) needed, what could be a better time for it?

Escambia94 · Oct 23, 2010

My friend is a big basketball fan, and he uses what is called "the rule of three" to describe a successful basketball team. A successful basketball team of five players needs to have three tiers of players: A, B, and C. You can't have too many A players on a team, because that is too much ego in one small area. He proved that the best NBA teams in history had at most two, but sometimes one A, one or two Bs, and a couple Cs. Too many Cs, and you have a mediocre team. Too many Bs, and you are missing the explosive gamebreakers. Too many As and you suffer the Prima Donna syndrome.

A similar team chemistry must exist for a football team. The 2009 Gators almost had the right balance, but were one A short (Percy Harvin), but acted like Prima Donnas. The 2008 Gators had two As--Tebow and Harvin.

It looks to me like the 2010 Gators have no As, one B (Burton), and a lot of Cs. Demps would be our A, but his injury has dragged him down to a C. Burton could be an A if the coaches let him loose more like they did with Kentucky.

So, where is the magic? We were led to believe our A players would be Brantley (a better passer than Tebow) and Demps (the fastest man in college football). We were wrong. We have discussed a lot as to whether or not this is due to play calling, a scared Brantley, injuries, an offensive line, or what. Regardless of the reason, the result is that we have no A players--the ones with magic. We have one, and only one, with mojo and that is Burton. A healthy Demps has mojo and magic, but we have not seen that since week 4.

So, what was the magic in 2009? Tebow. One A = SEC East champion. 2008? Tebow and Harvin. Two As = BCS champion.

Leakfan12 · Oct 24, 2010

The Zooker said:
I know where the magic went. It went to the Minnesota Vikings. I think Percy had more to do with our last two titles than any other player. When we'd be in a tough spot, Percy would come through with an electrifying play to get the team back in action for the win. He broke the big plays that saved our butts time and again.

Funny I thought it went to Denver with Tebow.

Escambia94 · Oct 24, 2010

Leakfan12 said:
Funny I thought it went to Denver with Tebow.

See above. I think you're both right. One player cannot be all the magic a football team needs. You need at least two magical beings. One went to Minnesota and one went to Denver.

Think about this year. Who has the magic this year? Now think about next year. We need at least two magical ones, and we have only addressed the offense. Brandon Spikes and Joe Haden were our defensive magic. Who is the defensive magic for us today? Next year?

The Zooker · Oct 24, 2010

Escambia94 said:
See above. I think you're both right. One player cannot be all the magic a football team needs. You need at least two magical beings. One went to Minnesota and one went to Denver.

Think about this year. Who has the magic this year? Now think about next year. We need at least two magical ones, and we have only addressed the offense. Brandon Spikes and Joe Haden were our defensive magic. Who is the defensive magic for us today? Next year?

Jon Bostic and Jelani Jenkins are going to be beasts next year. Bostic in the middle and Jenkins on the outside. That's going to be a scary LB duo.

Escambia94 · Oct 24, 2010

The Zooker said:
Jon Bostic and Jelani Jenkins are going to be beasts next year. Bostic in the middle and Jenkins on the outside. That's going to be a scary LB duo.

How about CB? Is Jeremy Brown going to step up and shut down opposing aerial attacks like we did early in the season? I'm looking for some more QB sacks out of Ronald Powell.

Escambia94 · Oct 24, 2010

Going back to the original topic from what I think was DRU2012's original intent, I think that good coaches not only raise good assistants, but hire new ones. How many West Coast Offense coaches studied directly under Bill Walsh as opposed to studying within his circle of coaches. If we believe that Urban Meyer is a great coach, then we have to believe he will thrive with new assistants as old ones move on to be head coaches.

I *think he knows Addazio is not his heir apparent. What remains to be seen is whom UM thinks is his successor. Is it Loeffler? Azzani? To be determined?

Another answer to the question on where the magic went is that some of that magic may still be here waiting for the right playmakers. 2011 is looking good. 2012 looks even better. Maybe the Gator Nation is being too impatient with this reloading process. Maybe. Granted, I don't like this down cycle, but we had "rough" years under Spurrier. We had really nasty years under Hall and Pell. Let's hope this down cycle without magic is only a year or two.

sumguy · Oct 24, 2010

@ the Zooker: You are correct. Percy was special (Freshman year he the MVP of the SEC championship game and i don't know what game the award committee was watching but Percy was clearly the MVP of the BCS championship game). Percy's ball skills were second to none, he made a lot plays for tebow during his heisman season (turning a lot of quick screens to touchdowns) and the championship season (go back and watch the LSU game that season).

@Leakfan: Don't get me wrong Tebow was a great player but not much was magical/fun last year except the phantom calls that helped keep us undefeated til the SEC championship game (see the personal foul carl johnson got called against Ark *i think it was ARK might have been MISS ST* if that's not magic i don't know what is

). That was a team that played tight and just wasn't very fun to watch.

@escambia: I dunno man. Urban is looking a lot like Fulmer. Once the Cutcliffe left (both times) it was a pretty ugly. I remember being upset after the Streak in the Swamp was broken, the Nebraska game, losing to Tenn for the first time in a while, having our win streak snapped by LSU, losing to MIA after being up in the forth quarter, but i don't remember the rough Spurrier years being this bad though.

Escambia94 · Oct 24, 2010

@sumguy: Even if Urban Meyer turns out to be a luckier version of Fullmer, it is too early to tell. You're right, the Spurrier years did not look this bad, but I will say that some of the Hall and Pell years did look this bad--even years with Emmitt Smith on the field. Emmitt did not have that magical QB to complement his running.

Maybe in a couple years we will look at this old thread on the forum and say "told you so", but for now it might be early. Yes, we suck right now. I will give Urban Meyer and his staff some credit. The man who primarily recruited some of these players now coaches another team--Dan Mullen (takes credit for snagging Trey Burton). Some of the guys who recruited the current freshmen are gone now, so I can give them another year to recruit who they think fits this team and get us back on track. If we suck this bad for another year (maybe two...that's pushing it), then I will assume that magic is gone. Even though we have sunk lower than the Zook years, I had less faith in Zook's ability to bring us up to where we needed to be. With Meyer, we have seen the Promised Land twice, and we have been okay most other years.

I am not big on taking away from Tim Tebow minus Percy Harvin. It was still a good year. I won't complain about one loss to the eventual National Champion. Even 2007 was not that bad--I could see hope in that year. 2010 looks like total crap, but there are glimmers of hope in the freshmen and the recruits.

The Zooker · Oct 24, 2010

Escambia94 said:
How about CB? Is Jeremy Brown going to step up and shut down opposing aerial attacks like we did early in the season? I'm looking for some more QB sacks out of Ronald Powell.

That reminds me -- Powell might be moved to linebacker permanently. Imagine that trio: Bostic, Jenkins, Powell. That would be sick. As for CB, Jeremy Brown will most likely be the top player on the squad. One of our current true Freshmen will get the other spot. Either Riggs or Shaw I think. Watkins maybe. Longshot chance for a 2011 classer. Somebody like Waisome.

The Zooker · Oct 24, 2010

Oh crap, I forgot about Chris Martin. Seriously, our linebacker corp next year is going to be absolutely devastating. Martin is the kid that transferred in and had to sit this season. Rivals had him rated as the #2 DE in the class of 2010. But I think UF is listing him as a LB on their roster. He played linebacker in high school. The kid is a beast.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/footballrec...artin-81148;_ylt=AkRw064nbbMgmgveAOO5sAJGPZB4

sumguy · Oct 24, 2010

i'm not saying that last year was a bad year or that Tebow was not a great player. I'm simply saying that there wasn't much magic/fun last year.

I like the little bit that we've seen from some of the younger players as well (i'm high on gilleslee, dubose when healthy, hines, floyd, josh evans, clark, bostic, elam, shaw, and jelani jenkins).

But with all those bright spots there are still major issues for next year:
#1 Brantley will still be here (I'm only listing this as a problem because i am assuming that the coaching staff will again refuse to mold the offense to his strengths and is hell bent on running the spread option)
#2 We will be replacing 4 out of 5 starters on the O-line. Wilson, Patcham, and Halapigo have some experience but all 3 are hurt right now and Patcham can never stay healthy.
#3 On the D-Line we lose Trattou, Lemmens, Marsh, Sanders, Antwine and the only experienced end we have returning is William Green since Powell is now a Linebacker (Why did we move Dee Finley from Safety to LB again?).
#4 Janoris Jenkins is gone if there is an NFL next year. Leaving our most experienced corner as Jeremy Brown. Black graduates leaving the Elam, Josh Evans (who i like), and Will Hill as your only safeties with any experience.

Number 1 won't be a problem if they completely revamp the offense this spring. Not too confident that this will happen since it didn't happen this spring. Numbers 2, 3, and 4 worry the hell out of me especially #3. So we really won't have a pass rush next year and the tackle rotation loses quite a bit of experience leading to an inexperienced secondary being torched. (Sounds a bit like 2007's D)

While i agree that the talent will be there there will be some groing pains.

The Zooker · Oct 24, 2010

sumguy said:
i'm not saying that last year was a bad year or that Tebow was not a great player. I'm simply saying that there wasn't much magic/fun last year.

I like the little bit that we've seen from some of the younger players as well (i'm high on gilleslee, dubose when healthy, hines, floyd, josh evans, clark, bostic, elam, shaw, and jelani jenkins).

But with all those bright spots there are still major issues for next year:
#1 Brantley will still be here (I'm only listing this as a problem because i am assuming that the coaching staff will again refuse to mold the offense to his strengths and is hell bent on running the spread option)
#2 We will be replacing 4 out of 5 starters on the O-line. Wilson, Patcham, and Halapigo have some experience but all 3 are hurt right now and Patcham can never stay healthy.
#3 On the D-Line we lose Trattou, Lemmens, Marsh, Sanders, Antwine and the only experienced end we have returning is William Green since Powell is now a Linebacker (Why did we move Dee Finley from Safety to LB again?).
#4 Janoris Jenkins is gone if there is an NFL next year. Leaving our most experienced corner as Jeremy Brown. Black graduates leaving the Elam, Josh Evans (who i like), and Will Hill as your only safeties with any experience.

Number 1 won't be a problem if they completely revamp the offense this spring. Not too confident that this will happen since it didn't happen this spring. Numbers 2, 3, and 4 worry the hell out of me especially #3. So we really won't have a pass rush next year and the tackle rotation loses quite a bit of experience leading to an inexperienced secondary being torched. (Sounds a bit like 2007's D)

While i agree that the talent will be there there will be some groing pains.

1. I'm praying the offense gets shifted to play on Brantley's strengths.

2. O-line does scare me but one thing will improve next season and that's the attitude of the O-line. Those young guys have that mean disposition that makes for a great lineman. That's why Patchan is always injured. He plays angry and gets hurt because his motor runs so high. Alajajian also has that mean streak so I kinda hope he gets the spot at Center over Robey. Nixon will have the opposite side of Patchan. Halapio will get one side at Guard and Wilson will be the veteran at the other Guard position.

3. D-line I'm actually not too worried at. I think the young guys can step in and make that unit shine. In the middle we will still have Jaye Howard and Omar Hunter. Young guys like Shariff Floyd and Dominique Easley should be at full speed by then too. DE might be an issue though. Hopefully Lynden Trail has put on enough size by then. Easley might get moved there. Powell might come back from LB. Hopefully guys like Willy Green and Earl Okine can make the magic leap like Jaye Howard did over the off season. But in the end I think the unit will still be solid.

4. Secondary should be okay if everybody continues to improve over this season and the off season. Elam and Hill should make for a good safety tandem. And Jeremy Brown should develop into a shut down corner. A young cornerback should also rise to the occasion. It shouldn't be that bad.

In the end, the only unit that kinda worries me is the O-line.

DRU2012 · Oct 25, 2010

I don't want to get too bogged down here (ie. on this topic) arguing the point, but regarding last season, I tend to agree with SumGuy that '09 WAS amazingly "NO FUN" , never mind the "just one loss"-argument--that's exactly what I thought (and said, to anyone who would listen) as it was unfolding.
I mention it now only as it presaged the problems that were to come AND goes to the heart of what may be the problem STILL: Were the coaches misusing the tools they had then, when they had a team better suited to their scheme (and when having Tebow was able to camouflage a lot of the unimaginative play-calling) only to be left looking confused and unprepared when they forced this very different team into that same mold this year (ie. scheme essentially unchanged despite their promises to the contrary)?
As for comparing where we are and/or where we're headed now with previous "lows" under other regimes, let's face it, our standards have been raised even since Spurrier. As for Zook, Pell, et al: "Lord, I hope not!!!" Only the most determined, self-delusional bungling could lead us that far down for that long.
Which brings us back to my original question.
Everyone has made good points here about what's going/gone wrong and what could/should be done about it.
When it comes to the underlying reasons, how and why we lost "it", I guess I suspect it goes deeper. If it's about who and/or what we've lost, well, are the answers here among us? If not, where are they, and can we go and get 'em?

gatorsare#1 · Oct 25, 2010

I think a multitude of factors have contributed to where we are today.

Losing Mullen and Strong was more devastating than we all thought at the time. If Mullen is our OC in 2009, there's a good chance this offense performs as expected instead of looking sluggish all year. That also means we potentially repeat as national champs and Tebow wins his 2nd Heisman. Addazio and Meyer's conservative game plan have partially led to where we are today. And Strong leaving set the defense back as he was an established coordinator here.

Urban Meyer's health scare have forced him to change his coaching style. Only time will tell if he's lost the edge or if he's still the same Urban Meyer that led this team to 2 NC's.

The Cam Newton incident also hurt. If that didn't happen, and he's still on our roster, then we're doing a lot better than 4-3, and Brantley might be on the bench now instead of being forced to run a system that doesn't suit his strengths.

Escambia94 · Oct 25, 2010

gatorsare#1 said:
I think a multitude of factors have contributed to where we are today....

The Cam Newton incident also hurt. If that didn't happen, and he's still on our roster, then we're doing a lot better than 4-3, and Brantley might be on the bench now instead of being forced to run a system that doesn't suit his strengths.

I have been reading up on this, and Cam Newton was really not named the Tebow heir apparent as we have been led to believe. He looked great when running over people, but he couldn't hit the broad side of a barn when passing. Maybe if Cam Newton never left Florida, he never would have been motivated to improve his game. I would even argue that if someone were to challenge Brantley's status as the Tebow heir that he would stop chickening out and dumping on the outlet receiver and look for any of the deep receivers other than Deonte Thompson.

I really think that Cam Newton had to leave Florida, get humbled at Blinn College, and build himself up to Auburn to get where he is today. Great athlete. Unstoppable runner. Great deep passes. Even today, the scouts say his accuracy is no better than Tebow's, and the scouts loved knocking on Tebow's accuracy despite his passer rating. As much as I like Cam Newton, I am not entirely convinced he would have saved the season. Brantley beat out Newton fair and square even before "the incident" according to my research. Newton left before the 2009 BCS National Championship game, before Tebow announced he was coming back, and after Brantley had climbed ahead of Newton on the depth chart. Blame it on Newton's injury, but our tendency towards revisionist history leads us to believe that we would be better today with Newton. That may or may not be true.

Where Did The Magic Go?

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