If they don't get their bleep together then they are screwed and Colorado State will be coming in with confidence after beating Arkansas. If they can't beat Kentucky, I'm not looking forward to UT there, Muschamp's C---s, UGA, and possibly FSU though they have their own struggles.
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Too soon to worry?
- Thread starter Leakfan12
- Start date
It's strange, but after getting more and more worried bout this one as it approached, especially waiting it out all day today and seeing all the reminders about young teams in general and all the ways they can fail to rise to the occasion as individuals AND as teams, remembering the evidence of OUR guys and all the ways THEY have found to screw up themselves, each other before and during games last coupla years, and considering the nature of streaks in general and the weird shit that sustains them along the way in the FIRST place, I am apparently NOT nearly as worried as y'all.
These others you mention may get or even have gotten the guy they need to eventually get them "back" too--but it looks very much like we got OUR guy NOW...and yes, I still feel that way.
But remember: these aren't really MULLENS' guys for the most part yet in the first place. His long, hard and very necessary effort to "change the culture" at University of Florida (at least as much in the dorms and lockerroom as on the field) has so far barely started. This is just an early, "first iteration" of the team and program he intends to bring in parts for and assemble in situ. The fact we see and sense so much progress already (to the point where we were fooled into thinking for a moment they'd already come further than they indeed had--or possibly COULD, when you think about it--is a good (possibly GREAT) sign, really, NOT a bad one.
And trust me: We are neither headed towards nor mired IN the kind of moribund "sticky bog" that the programs @Leakfan 12, mentions continue to writhe in...THAT'S where we've BEEN for years, and those all continue to show every sign that they HAVEN'T begun the long, hard and painful trek OUT of there. The reason we EXPECTED MORE tonight was BECAUSE we do clearly note all the signs, mainly in our Head Coach, the moves he made and the way it inundated player attitude and behavior and every part we could see of our team's performance and attitude up til now, that things were/ARE headed a different way. And again: we WEREN'T necessarily WRONG about ANY of that.
(...and PS: based on what we have shown so far, and seen from the competition, I predict we will pull it together and beat CSU and the Vols, lose to MSU in a surprisingly close one after that (as we continue to improve), eventually acquit ourselves decently in losing to a clearly superior foe in the Cocktail Party, and eventually get a REAL and true read on where we are as the season comes down to the last "reg scheduled one" against our cross state rivals in the panhandle.)
I am not going to panic, but I am going to rebaseline my expectations. Keep in mind that 60 of these players were recruited and coached by McElwain or Muschamp. Florida was manhandled on both lines of scrimmage despite having a great strength and conditioning program, because the talent simply is not there. What does this mean going forward? If we cannot run against Kentucky, then we certainly cannot run the ball against Georgia, Missouri, South Carolina, and maybe FSU. That is 5 losses for the season unless we can scheme around our lack of talent against SC and Missouri. I have no idea what to expect against FSU.
You and I have a similar estimate of about where we are, and why, now. And remember, as far as wins and losses go, even WITH overmatched talent on both the O- and D- lines it took a number of breakdowns and crazy wrinkles going against us for UK to actually beat us that way, in the end.
But from my egocentric, very personal point of view, the rest of this season will be watched/must be seen in terms of progress we are making as Mullens DEALS with the missing pieces you note, maximizes the strengths and development of what he's got, and continues to change the flawed, longtime dysfunctional culture that still underlies our program to some extent, and continues to influence events unpredictably (for eg, btw: what's going on with our best WR, the 5-star recruit we fought to get, still sitting on the sidelines, on suspension with the 3rd game pending? What's he done and is it enough reason to keep him out any longer? I feel we've gotta trust and support Mullens in his efforts to reshape that "culture", sometimes desribed as team- "poise" or "discipline", but I am sure interested in how that ongoing effort is progressing and how this plays into it).
It is all about getting better, growing as a team and program in every way now--and what I see in that regard is by far the main focus of how I watch and judge our "success", game by game the rest of this season. Because this much hasn't changed: It ISN'T just wins and losses for us...we've all seen and been less-than-satisfied with "pulling out a few extra unexpected, even 'lucky' wins" in recent years, under BOTH Muschamp and McEllwaine--only to be drubbed when it put us in position to gain the next level in a meaningful game...and those Coaches never seemed to grasp, certainly didn't create a program or environment designed to make us the ONE THING WE EXPECT AND DEMAND: To become once more the kind of program that EXPECTS to contend for CHAMPIONSHIPS, year in year out.
For the remainder of THIS season, I will be monitoring our Coach and staff's efforts at our ongoing "Full Rebuild"...I will continue to watch the games (and discuss them here) from the angle of a fan who is judging not so much "wins and losses" but much more the moves made in becoming the team and program we WILL BE, those moves' effects and the progress we are making in this way.
It isn't that I want to BE Alabama, or even "be LIKE them"; only that we are on the way to becoming a COMPLETE PROGRAM that annually challenges at a similar level, that can reasonably expect that season's team to match-up well with whomever is playing at that level. And this time I am convinced that this is MULLENS' aim as well--that his is a coherent, practical longterm plan to build and sustain just such a program, as Spurrier did (Spurrier himself SAID as much Sat night when they had him with them in the broadcast booth, by the way).
[Escambiafrom a 9]@Escambia94[/USER],
And E-, I am interested to hear your thoughts and reaction to what I say in my earlier post here today, "...TRULY 'Starting Over' Now". My thoughts there comprise and are in reaction TO a certain "revelatory insight" into our true situation and current plight as a team, program, from a FAN's P.O.V. I look forward to YOUR thoughts.
@DRU2012 Jacob Copeland is not suspended. He is injured. Every single freshman recruited by Mullen, and every new transfer or walk-on (30 players) has played in these past two games except Copeland.
OK, thanks... Now: What's going on with Cece Jefferson??? A McEllwaine flip amid a veritable circus of maneuverings and public gossip the Fall before, Mullens managed to retain him, he arrived as promised and enrolled the past spring; but he too sat for the 2nd game in a row.
I was under the impression after the FIRST game that it was for "low-grades" back in Spring Semester, months earlier, but that he'd "settled down and settled IN" after early difficulties coming in here (hey--personally, I was there voluntarily to LEARN, schoolwork-wise maybe for the first time in my life...AND went after SCHOLARSHIP MONEY once I realized all that was out there, and that I might well have the means and skills to GET IT; but I also knew all kinds of folks who came in, "free", wild away from home and no one looking over their shoulders maybe for the first time in their lives, who proceeded to flunk out their first semester at UF, then had to quietly switch over to Santa Fe CC to raise their GPA and eventually return to UF once they'd "fixed" it...). It happens. But with scholarship athletes, it's a more complex, even arcane system of "make-ups" and "safety nets" that is designed to give maximum flexibility (espec with respect to highly sought and valued FOOTBALL-program recruits). Its details have probably changed in many ways, but the fact of it and its likely still extant complicated variations is something the generalities of which I was aware of and involved in: One of the very "Scholarship/support" programs I earned into back then included my being paid a (for those days) generous stipend tutoring various scholarship athletes, helping them excede the requirements in various subjects in order to satisfy particular levels of grade or quality of work in order to maintain the necessary standing to retain those scholarships. Any sport, either gender, might require my services and be assigned to me, but the largest portion WERE male football players. Even after all these years I approach this like "attorney/client priveledge" or "Above Top Secret", didn't then and still won't identify the young men I helped--but it did include a handful of guys who went on to play Sundays, and more. So there's help for "low grades", it is all "fixable" and carries low stigma among your teamates at least--Again, things have changed and maybe it's all more public and serious now, but it is difficult for me to envision a "bad grades"/poor work habits problem that's so serious it has somehow come to threaten the career of a valuable and coveted potential frontline WR. Do you know ANYTHING about THIS mess, E--?
PS Don't mean to pester you about this, but I am still very interested in your thoughts concerning the "change of focus" I recomend, looking ahead with our program, in my post, "...TRULY 'Starting Over' Now", that I put up earlier Sunday.
Speaking of the running game, if they couldn't stop the run against UK then what's going to happen against Georgia, Missouri, South Carolina, and FSU because I know Taggart likes to run from his days in USF with Marlon Mack (now with the Colts).
I agree. Mullen will need to change up the blocking scheme somehow: slide a RB in to block or move a TE over. On the defensive line it is hard to use scheme to conceal a lack of talent, so the Gators need to figure something out that works within the limits of the talent they have.
All those missed tackles were gruesome to watch. I was under the impression we had already begun to address these weaknesses, already had brought things up a notch both in terms of talent and experience on BOTH sides of the ball--but it sure wasn't functionally notable last night. We got a big ways to go, gotta figure those are recruiting priorities next time and meanwhile intense scheme and technique focus in practices rest of the season...
But you're right: This is one area where you are limited in what you can do "with smoke and mirrors"--it is inherent talent, size and speed that will make the largest difference--but DAMN: again and again we had a lineman take HIMSELF out of position to give up a big play, and just as often we "got a body on a body", the player was there to blow up a play, but he didn't wrap him UP (sometimes a SLEW of such misses occurred, one after another). Too often simply poor technique--but again, like last season there were too many of those casual "throw the shoulder to his knees, roll under the runner and in so doing cut him down"--where he DIDN'T go down but rather left that defender a failure as the first of several solitary bodies lying in a line on the field behind that runner, after a damaging run for first down--or worse. We don't get a big chunk of those corrected, we're gonna get embarrassed by several teams ahead on our schedule.
...with Reese injured and Cece Jefferson possibly STILL under "academic suspension", we are missing our two best run-defenders. It sure showed on Sat agajnst UK. Anyone know the situation as to when either will likely be back???
The latest report is that both Reese and Jefferson will return this week.
Also there will be some shuffling around on the offensive line. Some freshmen will get promoted as starters in the secondary. There is talk of converting a receiver into a DB.
This is all positive, hopeful news, imho.
(Just out of interest, did any of this get mentioned or referred to by Mullens himself in response to questions at his Presser? I haven't watched it yet--though I got home over an hour ago and have it on DVR: I just haven't been quite ready to calmly absorb its inherent asdumptions about the rest of the season and where we're at now, after all. I plan to, will do so soon--in fact am INTERESTED in his approach and demeaner, which I expect to be calm, balanced, insightful, honest, realistic (a far cry from "angry Mus" and "obfuscating Mac", each in their turn after losses).
Anyway, we are NOT without hope for growth, improvement and solid wins ahead--even in some of the tougher games. In most cases, we will be a tougher and tougher team to beat as the season goes on. This Coach will make positive changes and improvements rather than excuses.
Thanks, E--.
Concerning to hear all this. Granted it's not against conference opponent though Colorado State did beat a SEC team.
Better now than later. Other coaches would have kept using the same players in frustrating losses. The Gators have historically done well with switching player positions. Joe Haden, Jordan Reed, Bubba Caldwell, Cris Collinsworth, and Wilbert Marshall are all famous Gators who switched positions.
Well, I just watched Mullens' presser--and there's a whole bunch there I have reactions to--but I'm probably gonna limit all that: It's already "mid-week" and it would be time to turn our attention to "the next game" in any event, and in this case I think we all agree it is best to "Move on." in any event.
I do want to say once again how much I appreciate our Head Coach's general demeaner at these affairs--calm, balanced, even-tempered, good natured, informative and forward-looking. Given the opportunity, he addresses all concerns in a forthright manner. All in all, he managed here not only to answer the questions themselves, but seemingly "read" the general disquiet behind them among all of us "out here", and anticipate what really worries us.
So, along with the details of injuries, quitters and/or other ongoing "non-appearance" issues--and yes, there'll be some more missing pieces (especially in the defensive secondary, mostly due to injuries) and "returns" (notably Reese, almost surely, MAYBE Jefferson, and a few others)--the net effect seeming to be some brain-storming on bringing over some guys from the offense to help out in that depleted defensive secondary (still "on the drawing boards", remaining to be seen its promise in practice at the time of this presser, anyway)... Some revealing and (to me) encouraging discussion by the Coach of what he expects in the way of effort, attitude and PROGRESS from his players, as young men imdividually AND AS A TEAM in these practices, game by game, throuvhout the week and THE SEASON...
From my P.O.V., he said all the things I figured was and NEEDED to be the case as we began and evolved throughout this season. He talked a lot about "changing the culture" of our team and program, expressed it firmly, clearly and in hopeful yet realistic manner.
In fact, Coach Dan expressed much of both the attitude and content of much of what we ourselves have been thinking and discussing here, interestingly enough. In fact, we can take some comfort in everything we're seeing and hearing in this regard: Unless he is completely BS'ing us and everyone else about himself (something we had to accept and get used to in the course of the last SEVERAL regimes--not just to explain breakdowns and failures under the last two, but to "cover over" potential questions arrising regarding "successes" as we got deeper into the Meyer era)--his attitude, approach and ongoing plans, we can relax, take and trust the long view: Our program and future are in good hands--the RIGHT hands.
There was more, of course, but a lot of it was of about the game past, and as I say, I am sensitive to the feeling that it is time to look ahead at what is coming, rather than dwell much more on what is past.
There was one more thing he touched on, discussed briefly in reaction to a question from the media guys, and that was concerning "that supposed missed field goal in the 4th qtr". Coach DIDN'T jump all over and INTO discussion of how it profoundly affected the 4th qtr situation, and hence how the late game played out (though in wider context all that WAS referred to with repect to some other issues he noted, incidentally having to do with how he wants his players to approach the next practice week AFTER a game, win or loss, in exactly the same way--so even if "breaks" had somehow led to a victory, according to our Coach "...the only difference should be that maybe we have smiles on our faces coming in on Monday, the effort, attitude and progress day by day should be just the same..." Right ON!!! THAT'S part of what he is working towards in rebuilding this team and program)...And incidentally, they've submitted whatever "official queries" are required in order to have that play and call closely looked at, its details examined, a review of its accuracy and fairness eventually supplied by the NCAA rules committee...They can't change the score, even less "fix" the damage of its effect, obviously--but such "reviews" have been cumulatively known to lead to eventual rule changes (like maybe, in this case5 using advancing technology to place "pencil-cameras" with little lasers mounted beside them on the uprights pointing straight up, eliminating "OPINION", and/or flawed-positioning, and/or poor eyesite from the potential impediments to getting the call right)... OR even less likely it seems, some comment on (even better, some recommendation as to action that might be taken) regarding the whole question of why this official saw fit, then and there and in that situation to take the HUGELY rare step of choosing to make ANY such call in that particular moment and situation, consideted possibly deciding an SEC game on a questionable hairline judgement call that is almost NEVER called (having searched elsewhere following up on this ongoing investigation, I can tell you that the official in question is apparently claiming that though video has him still "backing up" as the ball sails over the uprights, he says he was "in position" by the crucial instant (though he couldn't possibly, then or now, KNOW that for certain), AND that his ruling on a tumbling ball took into account the place an imaginary line straight up from the pylon supposedly intersected the ball--supposedly in such a way that more of the ball was OUTSIDE that "invisible line" than inside of it at that instant--"though that WASN'T necessarily so" an instant later, as the ball sailed on--Ridiculous, I say...a call that close shouldn't have been made in first place, and so far all subsequent reviews have run from "impossible to tell for sure with slo-mo freeze frames, etc", to "Hey, dumbass, you got it WRONG"...Of course, I've also heard "How much they PAY you?", but I'm not going there).
For our Coach's part, he notes our "inquiry"/request for ruling and clarification, and "is satisfied that due to previous experience with them I have confidence that The Committee does its job, and does it well, with speed, frankness and accuracy..."
Bottomline: What's done is done, game is lost, streak over and this part somewhat buried by subsequent silliness and exagerated final score... MAIN point, from OUR points-of-view as I've tried to stress:
We take it, learn from it, and actually in the long term take SOME solace in wiping all the fluky aspects and outright SHADOWS of such "streaks" from our path and future history: We WANT "s clean slate" from here--and in one more way, we HAVE one.
I do want to say once again how much I appreciate our Head Coach's general demeaner at these affairs--calm, balanced, even-tempered, good natured, informative and forward-looking. Given the opportunity, he addresses all concerns in a forthright manner. All in all, he managed here not only to answer the questions themselves, but seemingly "read" the general disquiet behind them among all of us "out here", and anticipate what really worries us.
So, along with the details of injuries, quitters and/or other ongoing "non-appearance" issues--and yes, there'll be some more missing pieces (especially in the defensive secondary, mostly due to injuries) and "returns" (notably Reese, almost surely, MAYBE Jefferson, and a few others)--the net effect seeming to be some brain-storming on bringing over some guys from the offense to help out in that depleted defensive secondary (still "on the drawing boards", remaining to be seen its promise in practice at the time of this presser, anyway)... Some revealing and (to me) encouraging discussion by the Coach of what he expects in the way of effort, attitude and PROGRESS from his players, as young men imdividually AND AS A TEAM in these practices, game by game, throuvhout the week and THE SEASON...
From my P.O.V., he said all the things I figured was and NEEDED to be the case as we began and evolved throughout this season. He talked a lot about "changing the culture" of our team and program, expressed it firmly, clearly and in hopeful yet realistic manner.
In fact, Coach Dan expressed much of both the attitude and content of much of what we ourselves have been thinking and discussing here, interestingly enough. In fact, we can take some comfort in everything we're seeing and hearing in this regard: Unless he is completely BS'ing us and everyone else about himself (something we had to accept and get used to in the course of the last SEVERAL regimes--not just to explain breakdowns and failures under the last two, but to "cover over" potential questions arrising regarding "successes" as we got deeper into the Meyer era)--his attitude, approach and ongoing plans, we can relax, take and trust the long view: Our program and future are in good hands--the RIGHT hands.
There was more, of course, but a lot of it was of about the game past, and as I say, I am sensitive to the feeling that it is time to look ahead at what is coming, rather than dwell much more on what is past.
There was one more thing he touched on, discussed briefly in reaction to a question from the media guys, and that was concerning "that supposed missed field goal in the 4th qtr". Coach DIDN'T jump all over and INTO discussion of how it profoundly affected the 4th qtr situation, and hence how the late game played out (though in wider context all that WAS referred to with repect to some other issues he noted, incidentally having to do with how he wants his players to approach the next practice week AFTER a game, win or loss, in exactly the same way--so even if "breaks" had somehow led to a victory, according to our Coach "...the only difference should be that maybe we have smiles on our faces coming in on Monday, the effort, attitude and progress day by day should be just the same..." Right ON!!! THAT'S part of what he is working towards in rebuilding this team and program)...And incidentally, they've submitted whatever "official queries" are required in order to have that play and call closely looked at, its details examined, a review of its accuracy and fairness eventually supplied by the NCAA rules committee...They can't change the score, even less "fix" the damage of its effect, obviously--but such "reviews" have been cumulatively known to lead to eventual rule changes (like maybe, in this case5 using advancing technology to place "pencil-cameras" with little lasers mounted beside them on the uprights pointing straight up, eliminating "OPINION", and/or flawed-positioning, and/or poor eyesite from the potential impediments to getting the call right)... OR even less likely it seems, some comment on (even better, some recommendation as to action that might be taken) regarding the whole question of why this official saw fit, then and there and in that situation to take the HUGELY rare step of choosing to make ANY such call in that particular moment and situation, consideted possibly deciding an SEC game on a questionable hairline judgement call that is almost NEVER called (having searched elsewhere following up on this ongoing investigation, I can tell you that the official in question is apparently claiming that though video has him still "backing up" as the ball sails over the uprights, he says he was "in position" by the crucial instant (though he couldn't possibly, then or now, KNOW that for certain), AND that his ruling on a tumbling ball took into account the place an imaginary line straight up from the pylon supposedly intersected the ball--supposedly in such a way that more of the ball was OUTSIDE that "invisible line" than inside of it at that instant--"though that WASN'T necessarily so" an instant later, as the ball sailed on--Ridiculous, I say...a call that close shouldn't have been made in first place, and so far all subsequent reviews have run from "impossible to tell for sure with slo-mo freeze frames, etc", to "Hey, dumbass, you got it WRONG"...Of course, I've also heard "How much they PAY you?", but I'm not going there).
For our Coach's part, he notes our "inquiry"/request for ruling and clarification, and "is satisfied that due to previous experience with them I have confidence that The Committee does its job, and does it well, with speed, frankness and accuracy..."
Bottomline: What's done is done, game is lost, streak over and this part somewhat buried by subsequent silliness and exagerated final score... MAIN point, from OUR points-of-view as I've tried to stress:
We take it, learn from it, and actually in the long term take SOME solace in wiping all the fluky aspects and outright SHADOWS of such "streaks" from our path and future history: We WANT "s clean slate" from here--and in one more way, we HAVE one.
Even if the referees called that field goal good, the Gators did not deserve to win the game. I hope this loss hurts the players so much that they get their asses in gear. Go to class. Study film. Hit the weights. Practice hard. This team has been borrowing swagger from the 2006 and 2008 teams, with nothing else to back up that swagger.
Again, you are dead right, brother. A whole LOT of that kept being similarly, self-DELUSIONALLY dragged along by and with the last SEVERAL versions of the FLORIDA GATORS. ANOTHER example of our now necessarily "wiping the slate clean", FINALLY, truly and properly "Starting over"...A state of mind we hoped and had every reason to think was in play after Meyer "left for real" (after the "Who's our Coach?"/"Addazio???" season), that SHOULD have been a priority for and important "first step" by the following TWO Head Coaches here instead somehow was allowed to persist, carry on.
Not anymore. That one major realization and resulting change bodes so well for this organization and the whole program they have inherited, and are carefully, thoroughly going about reshaping.
